Dog food allergy question... (biting, prescription, skin, diet)

[mimosa]

I just went to the pet store and he sold me natural balance limited ingredience for allergies. No grains. I will try this and then I quit. The poor dog has had so many foods in a month I still have 5 lbs of canidae left for the shelter. Her poops were still mush onthat too. I give up.

[APBT_Samara]

Natural Balance is better then Hills but it certainly woudln't be my first choice. The vet is going to say she needs only that brand for life because it is revenue for them.

Anyway NB used to be a better product but they got cheaper, it is no longer Duck/Potato it is actualy Potato and Duck as is their venison and fish formulas which used to not be this way. You want more meat and meat as the first ingredient. I also found that even though its cheaper per bag and lb/oz per feeding it wasn't meaning it cost 3-11cent more per feeding then another food that might be more per bag. That might not be a lot but it adds up over months, a year and with multiple dogs of course would add up quick. Also now being more carb/potato then meat wouldn't work to well for mine and the low fat content makes matters worse. So I figured why pay more for a lesser quality food. Of course with Hills that is what you are doing so you if the NB works for your dogs I don't think it'd be a horrible food. Some dogs can do fine with little meat content even with such low fat levels. Some dogs without allergies and such seem to do fine on the crappy brands while others look terrible after just a couple days. All depends on the dog. Whether you decide to go with NB or another brand (I'm assuming your looking into foods with duck as this was probably a novel protein for her) you should rotate with another protein source or two to try and prevent her from becoming allergic to duck.

There are better foods that are good for dog with allergies if you can find them in your area also some of the higher quality foods with single or a couple meat sources without fillers and all that are fine for dogs with allergies.

What specific foods is she allergic to? (like chicken or wheat for example)

These are some other foods that work good for dogs with allergies
California Natural
Merrick
Wellness and Wellness Core
Solid Gold
Instinct
I've known a few on Canidae
Purevita
Evangers
Horizon Legacy
Go Natural & Now Grain Free
Fromm 4Star
Nature's Logic

There are more too, just have to check around

[CF1128]

Please don't attack me, just my opinion coming in here.
I was the biggest skeptic ever on raw diets, after doing my due diligence and I am talking about months of research, I started with a complete raw diet.
I was interested for years, then did serious research for about 3 months every night, until I made the move.
I have a Great Dane, a Pom and a Havenese.
I originally started reading about raw diets years ago when my last (rest her soul) Dane was alive. They have such a short life span, I wanted to feed the best I could, to extend any future Danes life that I would have in my life.I wish I had the guts to have switched he over.
She was not a food motivated dog, one of the few I suppose.
Anyway, I am not here to push a certain diet, I just know, and I have seen for years, that food allergies go away, and I mean go completely away with the right diet.
I don't want to sound like a freak about this, but the research is out there, it has been done for you, just google it.
You can't be an idiot, there are some very scary things that can happen on the diet if you are not careful, and dogs can get blockages etc...
You must due your homework.
It can be a pain, I prep one complete Saturday afternoon, every 5 weeks, cutting, packaging, and stocking a separate freezer for the dogs.
My Dane eats complete(including raw bones):
Chicken Backs(favorite)
Turkey Necks
Pork Necks
Pork Shoulders(meat only)
Tripe
I buy them usually in 40 lbs. boxes
Vitamin supplement and carrots, apples,sno peas and I am sure other stuff I am not thinking about. The funny thing is, and I know it is expensive, but we spend $180 every 5 to 6 weeks, which isn't that bad for 3 dogs, and I could save a lot more if I had a larger freezer and bought in bigger bulk. obviously my Dane eats the bulk and then some, Danes are expensive to own, feed and take care of.
It is a huge commitment, but after two months, you don't even realize it, the first two months, you swear it is not worth it, but then you see the results and I will never feed any other way again.
It is nerve racking in the beginning, you worry about choking, intestine blocks etc... but after a while, you laugh, my 8 year old Havenese is a puppy again, no skin allergies or hot spots, and my year and three month old Dane is 152lbs. happy puppy that will do anything for an apple, carrot or an ice cube.
Also, the other best part, and any of you Dane owners or other giant breed owners will dig, is the fact that because it is almost all protein /fat and bones, the waste is 1/4 the size of normal, maybe 1/8th and it does not stink, it is tiny and firm, that alone is worth the money.
A fifty pound bag of kibble, last a couple weeks with a Dane, so I was spending $120 a month on kibble, so for $60 more a month, I feed a great complete diet, two other dogs, and all are very healthy.
It cost me $75 for a used freezer on Craigs list, one Saturday afternoon every 5 weeks, and a good relationship with the local butcher.
Just my opinion, good luck with your dogs.
Please, I am not pushing any special raw diet, mine is a mix of all that I read about, I just believe in it, I have a breeder up the road(Leonbergers) from me that also does it, only after watching his dogs eat, did I dare do it.
I just wanted you to see an opinion from a guy, who is not a breeder that does this, I am a normal dog owner and not a "super owner" just a regular guy who didn't want to see his dogs dying prematurely.

[CF1128]

By the way, my Vets who I think are great, are both against the raw diet, yet they have done blood work and frequent check ups with my Dane and can't believe how Great he looks, they agree he is healthy, and are blown away by his condition on the diet.
They also sell Prescription Dog food, please don't forget that a Vet is not a non profit organization.
My Vets are great, but they are not in business to lose money.
They are against the diet because most people will not do it the right way, and carefully. They do agree, he is as healthy a dog as they have ever seen.

[stan4]

We do the z/d with our dog b/c of the same reasons as the op (though nothing nearly as horrible was going on with the skin - mostly just break-outs). We also have the antigen shots going (did you get the RAST done to find out about specific food allergies?).

Our vet gave us a big list of other acceptable alternative foods for the dog besides the prescription diet, and we tried some, but two problems:

1. They were actually not that easy to find all the time at the pet stores (and when they were, they weren't always fresh).
2. The dog seems to do better on the z/d and enjoys eating it more.

Anyway, the combo of the shots and the z/d have made for a happy, healthy dog.

[Racelady88]

There is no, I repeat, no medication of any kind in any of the "prescription" diets. My vet would happily be selling me overpriced food.

Cut the nutrition label off of the bag and do some comparison shopping. My allergy dog was on the NB Duck & Potato food the first year and a half of her life due to severe food allergies. She also did well on their Venison & Sweet potato food. She is currently doing well on Solid Gold Wolfking.

The key to managing an allergy dog is knowing what the allergies are and avoiding them.

[stan4]

Who says there's medicine in the prescription diets?

[dreamofmonterey]

Dogs can have food allergies just like people. Besides environmental, they can be allergic to food additives. My one shar-pei was allergic to soy, and they put that in alot of different vbrands. Try keeping your dog off it for a week, see if it helps, good luck-

[noblewan]

Nupro also makes a yeast free formula which is very good. You have to order it from them directly. I give it my two dogs and they love it. My vet also said that salmon oil is very good for allergies so I give them that as well. Good luck.

I have a lab who used to weigh over 100 pounds and now weighs 75. My vet had said that 3 cups a day was sufficient. Apparently he was right as she now weighs, 75 pounds.

For snacks, Dusty gets baby carrots. She thinks they are great!

Good luck. Keep us posted on how she is doing.

[APBT_Samara]

Originally Posted by CF1128

Please don't attack me, just my opinion coming in here.

I don't think anyone would attack you. Most are friendly even if they disagree.

I feed a prey model diet so I happen to agree. A raw diet is one of the best, most natural with several benefits. I will just add my 2 cents.

Not worrying about pet food recalls, harmful chemicals or preservatives, knowing exactly what they are eating. Aiding in health, especially where cancer is concerned. Carbs which are found in most any dog food, especially cheap high grain little meat foods help aid the growth of the tumors, take that away and the cancer isn't as serious of a problem. A raw diet also helps build a strong immunity. Just because you feed a good diet doesn’t mean your dog will never get sick, genetics, initial immunity and other environmental factors also play a role. However if your dog is predisposed to cancer and does get cancer, it might not be as serious, a mast cell tumor might not grow as fast or aggressively nor spread the cancer to other parts of the body. Since it helps in immunity it can prevent your dog from being susceptible to illness or being able to better fight an illness. It can also help prevent allergies but again genetics plays a role in illness/allergies. If your dog develops environmental allergies they might not be as severe because a better immune system has been build and a healthier functioning body, there isn’t a way to know or prove this in a dog who’s never been fed kibble but some dogs I know were switched kibble to raw and the allergies lessoned considerable. Having the building blocks for a good immune system and rotating meat sources will help prevent food allergies. If your dog should still develop food allergies or was on kibble and has food allergies it will be a lot easier to pin point and avoid causing a reaction with raw diet. Since there isn’t 20-30 ingredients and additives, no grains, veggies or other food products you can do a simple easy elimination diet. Then not feed that food anymore, if your dog is allergic to beef don’t give beef.
Raw also has a high digestibility and small stools. Stool volume and mass is about 20-40% compared to that of kibble fed dogs. My 120lbs dog poops less then kibble fed dogs smaller then her. This is always nice for the owner. What is mostly eliminated is excess bone so the stools are nice and firm (which can help keep the anal glands clear) and they will usually turn white within a day or so and crumble. They are easy to pick up, a lot less to pick up and if their not picked up you don’t have to worry about getting poo stuck on your shoe. There is also very little to no order.
Although when you first switch you might get runny stools with mucus and bad smell. This will happen while the body is one detoxifying and also adjusting to a new and different diet.

It is not for everyone which is why I suggested some of the higher end kibbles. Some people don't like messing with the raw food, don't have the time or want to put the time in and it can be more expensive then feeding dog food.

I think the benefits and just feeding them as healthy as possible outweigh any inconvenience for the most part. Although I know its not possible for everyone nor do they even want to try so I don't push it on others. I try to feed all my animals as natural and best I can, I think that it is better for them and if they are for food it will be better for the person/animal eating them. My chickens eggs are more nutrition then those raised in a on commercial feed alone, the same is true of meat. They have less nutritional value and can also lack in omega fatty acids, which is why some people supplement with this in a raw diet (usually using fish oil).

It cost me about $250 more a month to feed raw, it takes me probably around an prepare and pack a weeks worth of food, maybe longer depending on the meat/what I have to cut for several dogs so its not that bad.

Your dogs will receive a natural diet and not be getting anything they don’t need like preservatives - These don’t have to be listed in the ingredients if the dog food manufacture themselves didn’t add them.
Harmful additives – Like the synthetic vitamin k mentioned above
Fillers - Like grains or cereals, some of these are hard to digest, frequent source of allergies while others are easier to digest but it is still not part of their natural diet and is used as a filler/needed to create the dry dog food. Some foods also use grain protein with less protein from animal and less meat content.
Or veggies, dogs can’t digest raw veggies but they are cooked in the dog food (of course) and used for similar reason as grains, some of these might be easier to digest compared to grains, less likely cause of allergies but they are still a filler needed to make dry dog food come out properly. Dry dog food has to have something to thicken it up and stay formed in the cooking process. Some foods also use this as a protein source just like grain when it is best to use animal protein vs grain/veggie protein. Animal protein is easier to digest, higher digestibility rate and natural to the dog.

Rotating meat sources and feeding plenty of organ meat will help your dog have a balance of nutrients, vitamins, iron, zinc, ect things they need. Bone is needed as it contains essential nutrition.
You can also feed raw egg, including the shell (some dogs digest the shell fine others might need it ground). Lamb, mutton, chicken, venison, duck, green tripe, turkey, goat, beef (hearts too), buffalo, fish (I use canned sometimes adding it the meal and sometimes use fresh cuts), rabbit, pork, elk and just about any other prey animal is good meat for your dog. Feeding whole animals like a rabbit or poultry is also beneficial but you don’t have to do this all the time (or ever if you can’t/don’t want to). You just need to feed muscle meat, organ meat and bone. Many say you don’t need to have bone or organ every meal, I like to. Some people feed a boneless meal each week or only feed organs a few times a week or feed a couple meals of organ alone. I like to feed all 3 each meal. 10-30% bone, I like to feed at least 10% organ meat and think 20% (or more even) is good. Then the rest muscle meat/other parts. A lot of people will only do 5-10% organ meat but organs are very nutrient rich (especially good sources of vitamins and minerals) this is probably why higher rank pack dogs eat these, other get plenty of muscle meat and low ranking dogs get the leftovers. Unlike pack life we have the ability to feed our dogs the best all the time if we chose. So that is what I try to do.