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Old 01-05-2009, 12:23 PM
 
88 posts, read 414,623 times
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Hi all. Happy new year! My pup is 3 mos old. I am trying to crate train him to NO avail!! He will pee/poop in his crate!! I do not leave him for extended periods in there. (about 1 hr at the MOST.) Its not a huge crate where he can poop at one end and lay at another. And he wasnt a puppy mill dog. Plus, he absolutely HATES being in the crate. He will whine, scratch, whine some more, yelp, bark, scratch, try to bite out clasp open, etc. I have tried giving him a treat each time he goes in. What to do?? Please help!!
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Old 01-05-2009, 12:35 PM
 
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Try feeding him in the crate, he'll come to like it then but keep in mind some just don't like their crates. What kind of crate is it, plastic or wire? Re the housetraining, how often are you feeding him? How often is he getting access to going outside? Praise him to the skies when he 'goes' (and of course go outside w/ him, walk him on a leash so you know what he's doing/not doing, he's out there to go, not to play, he can play later. He's still verrrry young, it does take months, accidents are inevitable, they want to be clean and can't really help it, walk him befeore you crate him.
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Old 01-05-2009, 12:36 PM
 
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You are expecting WAY TOO MUCH from this little pup!

You need to be MUCH MORE PATIENT.

First of all, the crate is probably TOO BIG. You need to get one or block off his existing crate so that he can comfortably lie down and turn around and THAT'S IT. If it's too big, he'll use one end as a latrine and lie on the opposite end. Here's a useful link for teaching him how to love his crate: Crate Training | The Humane Society of the United States (http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/our_pets_for_life_program/dog_behavior_tip_sheets/crate_training.html - broken link) There are lots of helpful sites but you CANNOT just shut him in the crate and close the door. Training him is a PROCESS.

Also, for the housetraining, don't expect much before six months of age, because puppies, like human infants, MATURE into being able to control the muscles that hold the bladder and bowel closed. Here are my housetraining instructions. If you and everyone in the house follows these TO THE LETTER (including the bit about the KINDS of treats) you'll have a trained dog - not immediately, because he's too young, but eventually.

MOST IMPORTANT: NO SCOLDING for accidents. He's trying! And if he has an accident where you're upset about it, that's YOUR fault, not his, since you let him into that area.

Here's the post:
Housetraining your dog (puppy or adult!)

The first thing you need to do is to remember that you’re trying to reinforce a new behavior. That means that the rewards for this behavior must be beyond WONDERFUL. NOT crap from the store. Wonderful treats are poached chicken breast/turkey breast, cheese and steak. And you don’t have to use big pieces. Tiny pieces (about 3mm cubes) are just fine! I poach a whole turkey breast every few weeks, cut it into hunks when it’s cool enough to handle, wrap them well and store them in the freezer. When I need some, I’ll thaw a hunk overnight and cut off pieces and dice finely, storing them in a plastic bag in the fridge. One hunk will last about five days. Cheese is also popular, so variety is fine.

I carry these plastic bags in my jacket pockets in the winter and in a fanny pack in warmer weather. You HAVE to have these with you, or this method won’t work, because you need to reward as soon as the dog finishes pooping or peeing. It’s not going to work if the rewards are in the house.

Remember that you’re trying to change a very ingrained behavior. Some dogs like to feel certain things under their feet when they eliminate, like fabric, or newspaper. This is called a ‘substrate preference.’ What you’re trying to do is change this substrate preference, and to do that you have to make the treats SO wonderful that the dog will change this very well-entrenched behavior. Thus the chicken, cheese, steak.

I love clicker training, but this can be done without clickers. You just need a way to ‘mark’ the behavior you want to reinforce. Use the word ‘YESSSSS!!!!’ very enthusiastically – that works for some.

You’re going to need to GO OUTSIDE WITH your dog and the dog needs to be on a leash. Yes, even in winter. If you don’t reward IMMEDIATELY after the event (when dog immediately finishes pooping or peeing) and wait inside, the dog is going to be reinforced for coming inside, not for doing its business. So, leash up your dog. STAND IN ONE PLACE. Be boring. Bring a book or magazine for yourself.

Eventually, the dog will do what you’re waiting for. The NANOSECOND that the dog is finished, HAVE A PARTY – lots of loud, high-pitched praise, treats and running around. You want to make this memorable for your dog! You’ll find that once the first event is achieved, the others will come more quickly. Keep on treating (you don’t have to throw a party except for milestones – a milestone = if he only pooped outside but now peed, too, or something equivalent to that) until he’s good and used to peeing/pooping outside. Before you know it, you have a trained dog.

Regarding accidents in the house: NO SCOLDING. Just clean them up. If you scold you’ll get the dog to think it’s bad to pee or poop and he’ll do it in places you won’t see. Until you step in it. Invest in a big bottle of Nature’s Miracle or Simple Solution and use it liberally on accidents.

With young puppies, remember they have little control of the muscle that holds the bladder closed. This is something they grow into. Just as it’s not expected that a human baby is toilet trained at six months, don’t expect much from a puppy. Patience, patience, patience!!!! The nervous system in a puppy has to mature, and it won’t have much control over the sphincter (closing muscle) at the neck of the bladder until six or seven months. The same goes for the anal sphincter. Until control is achieved, both of these muscles operate on reflex: there are stretch receptors in the bladder wall. When the bladder is full, it sends impulses to the spinal cord and these, in turn, send signals to the sphincter to open and the dog pees.

In the stomach wall, there are also stretch receptors. So when the dog eats and the stomach is stretched, the impulses again go to the spinal cord, but this time the reflex, outgoing, nerve signals are sent to the anal sphincter, so the dog defecates. This operates in people, too – which is why some people rush to the ‘reading room’ after a meal – especially breakfast.
__________________
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Some place very cold
5,503 posts, read 14,070,281 times
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You have to take him out of the crate immediately after he eats, so that he can poop and pee.

Praise him when he goes in the right spot!

Also, babies don't want to be left alone. Can you imagine being taken away from your family and suddenly stuck alone in a cage!

Try and make the crate a happy place by feeding him in there. Put his toys in there, and begin by putting him in for short periods.

He is just a tiny baby!
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:00 PM
 
88 posts, read 414,623 times
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*Forgot to mention, It appears that he can hole his pee/poop at will. I take him outside and let him walk for abt 20-30 minutes and he WONT go. As SOON as we step foot inside he tries to find a place to pee so I pick him up and quickly take him to his spot in the garage that has his pee scent on it, and in the meantime there is a trail of puppy pi** all over my nice new carpet. His crate is the perefct size-he can stand up/ turn around and that is it. He just HATES it.
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:05 PM
 
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He can't hold it at will. It may seem like that but he's a clueless young puppy. Would definitley not train him to 'go' in the garage, that's not accomplishing anything, you want him housebroken to go outside so take him out there often, like every hour or 2 during the day. Again, how often are you feeding and are you free-feeding, if you are that can be a problem in itself. Again, is he in a plastic crate or wire?, some prefer one to the other. Keep him in the kitchen (gate it and puppy proof it) so he has some room to walk around, watch him like a hawk, when he wakes up, take him out, take him out immediately after he eats, when he starts circling etc, learn his signals and praise him when he 'goes'. It takes a lot of patience esp. in the beginning.
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:10 PM
 
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Hi Honeycrisp-Its a plastic crate, and I only feed him in the AM around 6 (as soon as he wakes up) and again in the eveing around 5 or 6. The crate is in the kitchen, as we all tend to gather there. I dont want him to feel off to himself.
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:21 PM
 
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Your puppy is WAY too young to only have two meals a day!!!!! Until six months of age he should be getting THREE MEALS a day, supplemented with cottage cheese at snacktime!!!! That's NOT enough food.

And he CANNOT hold his bladder or bowels. He's TOO YOUNG.

I like wire crates better, because the dog can see all around, and they're easier to make smaller if necessary. The plastic ones are too confining and make the dog think he's alone.
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:22 PM
 
Location: California
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A 3 month old puppy needs to be fed 3 times a day. You need to get him out as soon as he is finished. And stay out with him until he is done. They may take 5 minutes or 1 hr...as soon as he is done, you praise the heck out of him and bring him in.
Crates are not suppose to be used as a punishment or for the dog to be just kept in. Sleeping and at times when he can not be watched...other than that, he should be able to mingle with the family.
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,310 posts, read 21,754,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a3593 View Post
Hi all. Happy new year! My pup is 3 mos old. I am trying to crate train him to NO avail!! He will pee/poop in his crate!! I do not leave him for extended periods in there. (about 1 hr at the MOST.) Its not a huge crate where he can poop at one end and lay at another. And he wasnt a puppy mill dog. Plus, he absolutely HATES being in the crate. He will whine, scratch, whine some more, yelp, bark, scratch, try to bite out clasp open, etc. I have tried giving him a treat each time he goes in. What to do?? Please help!!
Some crate training technique that has worked for me:

(i) when the puppy is tired and is trying to lay down for a nap, don't let him. Gently pick him up to his feet when he tries to lay down and gradually usher him towards the crate. You may have to place him in there a few times but he will eventually get the idea that the relief of sleep happens when he enters the crate. Leave the door open while he sleeps. Unless you are completely unable to watch him or you need to leave the house and can't take puppy with you, he should really be spending all of his time leashed to your belt loop.

(ii) feeding the puppy exclusively in the crate will quickly lead to a positive association in the puppy's head. You have to be disciplined and stick to your guns with this course.

(iii) I've had to break adult dogs of what I call "crate panic." It's not fun and is orders of magnitude more difficult than working with puppies. Please note that a 3 month old puppy isn't really ready for this stuff... It can be really heartbreaking, but if you let a crying dog out of the crate you are reinforcing the crying and you are letting him train you. If you let the dog cry for fifteen minutes and then let him out, you have taught him that crying for at least fifteen minutes is the way out of the crate. What I've done in the past is take the dog and crate outside (where the pitiful complaining is less likely to bother my tender-hearted bride), place the dog in the crate and take about ten paces away and completely ignore the dog while he protests. At some point he will get tired of crying. Right then turn around to face him, make eye-contact, tell him what a good boy he is and very slowly start to approach the crate. If he resumes the crying, immediately break eye contact and return to your original "ignore" position. Repeat. At some point (and this may take a while) you will see the lightbulb go off and the dog will be silent for the entire approach. Let him out, bestow lots of praise and call it a day. Repeat the exercise the next day. Start working in the house the day after that. If you have any setbacks, start from scratch. This will cure crying, but you will still have to perform proper crate training to get the dog to kennell on command.

Best of luck to you and take lots of pictures while he is little. As others have mentioned, don't lose sight of the fact that he is just a baby. Puppy training has to be 100% positive and the trainer has to be 100% patient.
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