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Old 01-18-2009, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
1,808 posts, read 5,866,908 times
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Hello everyone.

Yesterday, Tonka, my beagle/coonhound mix, was diagnosed with bladder stones. The vet wants us to feed him Royal Canin Urinary SO 14 dog food to dissolve the crystals that are causing this problem.

Unfortunately, I paid $38.50 (!!!!) for a 16.5 lb bag of food.

Does anyone know where I might be able to purchase this food at a better price?

TIA for your help.
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Old 01-18-2009, 11:23 AM
 
1,501 posts, read 5,187,685 times
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Much healthier foods out there. (Vets do NOT study nutrition. A HOLISTIC vet would know about the proper diet for this.)
Here's the scoop on that food:
Dog Food Reviews - Royal Canin Veterinary Diet canine Urinary SO 13 - Powered by ReviewPost

Here are definitions of ingredients in pet foods:
Pet Food Ingredient Definitions: All Critters ~ Pawprints and Purrs, Inc. <<<


Since the ingredient, Powdered Cellulose, is listed as the third ingredient in what our own dog was "prescribed" and is so common as main ingredient in many foods, I wanted to know more:

<<<Powdered Cellulose: purified, mechanically disintegrated cellulose prepared by processing alpha cellulose obtained as a pulp from fibrous plant materials.>>>

I did some digging because I wondered which fibrous plant material(s) they grinded up for this popular ingredient and found it was of PINE TREE.

<<<<Commercial cellulose sources Cellulose in pet food (http://www.petfoodindustry.com/ViewArticle.aspx?id=12666 - broken link)

There are various forms of powdered cellulose available from trees like pine and beech to bamboo and cotton. By and large, the cellulose used in petfood applications is derived from pine trees. The ingredient starts its journey in the pulping mills, the same mills used to produce paper. The pulp is made into long continuous sheets and rolled just like paper stock going to the local newspaper. However, cellulose intended for food and feed is ground through specially-designed hammer mills, then sized to certain particle lengths in giant "ball-mills.">>>>

Explains why this ingredient is referred to as "sawdust" so much. Between leaves, branches, and the bark, ever wonder which part of our Christmas trees are most edible and beneficial for carnivores?
I also notice that it is listed in this food as "Cellulose Powder" (which is just powder from it?)

Having read up on the inside workings of the pet food manufacturing procedures, one can bet it is sweepings from the floor in this instance (hence much lower on the ingredient list (in weight) than some other foods, where it is within the first 3 or 4 ingredients.

A Holistic vet will tell you how to keep the crystals and stones away -- for good -- without compromising the health of your dog. Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble is one resource where you may look into foods which will actually benefit your dog's overall health, including the stones. Ingredients in these "mainstream" foods is what gives all these dogs the crystals and other health problems in the first place. Best wishes.
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Old 01-18-2009, 11:42 AM
 
342 posts, read 1,641,044 times
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I agree, vetrinary schools unfortunately do NOT train their students in pet nutrition. I WOULD NOT trust the crap food vets try to push to sell (Iams, Hill's Science Diet, etc), unless they've been trained as a holistic vet or have otherwise studied dog nutrition. A lot of pet food manufacturers offer scholarships and other programs to fund vetrinary students and clinics, in exchange that their petfood be promoted by the vet or clinic.

Just looking at the Royal Canine Urinary SO 13 ingredients:
Rice, ground corn, chicken fat, chicken meal, corn gluten meal, natural flavors, dried egg powder, salt, cellulose powder, potassium chloride, dicalcium phosphate, choline chloride, calcium carbonate, calcium sulfate, taurine, vitamins [DL-alpha-tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, niacin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin (vitamin B2), folic acid], trace minerals [zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate], preserved with natural mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract, and citric acid.

The top three ingredients are grain, grain, and fat. Protein is not mentioned until the fourth ingredient. There's a LOT of corn in this food (ground corn, corn gluten meal), and corn is not digested by dogs (think what happens when you eat corn?). As viralmd mentions, the cellulose powder is basically a filler. On this diet, you'll be feeding your dog mainly grain and filler.

There are so many healthier options for your dog. For the same price of ~$40 you can be getting your dog 30 lbs of a MUCH healthier better quality food.
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Old 01-18-2009, 11:45 AM
 
1,501 posts, read 5,187,685 times
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Here's what boggles the mind the most; that they'd even tell you to feed a dry food -- it so defies all logic:

<<<Since the struvite stones form in urine with a high pH (alkaline urine), diets should help to maintain a low pH (acidic urine). Diets with animal-based protein sources are most important in maintaining an acidic pH (vegeterian or cereal-based diets are more likely to cause and alkaline urine). Homemade diets are preferred for dogs with chronic bladder disorders such as bladder stones. If processed foods must be fed, most holistic veterinarians prefer canned diets (which contain large amounts of water) rather than dry foods. >>>

Urinary (Bladder) Stones in Dogs - Treatment, Special Diets and Prevention
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Old 01-18-2009, 02:08 PM
 
1,177 posts, read 8,079,957 times
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I would just feed your dog a better food. That food isn't realy going to help. Or you can home cook the diet. You have to really want some of the special foods, as they just slap labels on them and vets endorse them even though they are no different then many other dogs foods out there (some of which might even be cheaper priced)
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Old 01-19-2009, 08:49 PM
 
Location: County Mayo Descendant
2,725 posts, read 5,108,843 times
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There are other things you can do, such as the site that was posted, They love to push dogfood on you, it don't mean its any better, with my pets illness it just made it worse. Its all money anymore I hate it.

I cannot post a link like the one above so I Sent you a message, check your mail here.
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Old 01-31-2009, 02:40 PM
 
59 posts, read 298,067 times
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Default Pro-vet

I write this with several years of experience in the veterinary field. While it is true that in some situations "prescription" food may not remedy a problem that is bound to get worse no matter what you do, (there is actually a food out there for cancer- who are they kidding?) sometimes a prescription diet is just the right thing to help your dog. And actually, I would rather pay for the right food than pay for successive stone removal surgeries (and watch my dog go through said surgeries. Stones and their removal are extremely painful.)
The statement that veterinarians know nothing about nutrition are ludicrous. They are trained for several years and know much more than anyone else about the right ways to treat your dog. It's true that they do push foods that they sell but it is because they have had good results with those foods in the past. Urinary dogs in particular need to be on the food prescribed to maintain kidney health, pH, etc. NO, vets are not all out to get your money, and YES, they actually do care about your dog. I agree that veterinary care is expensive, but it is nothing compared to human health care. When one purchases a dog, they are making a commitment to take care of that animal until the end of their lives. Sometimes it costs money. Following your vet's instructions is your best bet for a healthy dog.
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Old 01-31-2009, 02:57 PM
 
Location: San Diego
5,027 posts, read 13,406,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlyh View Post
I write this with several years of experience in the veterinary field. While it is true that in some situations "prescription" food may not remedy a problem that is bound to get worse no matter what you do, (there is actually a food out there for cancer- who are they kidding?) sometimes a prescription diet is just the right thing to help your dog. And actually, I would rather pay for the right food than pay for successive stone removal surgeries (and watch my dog go through said surgeries. Stones and their removal are extremely painful.)
The statement that veterinarians know nothing about nutrition are ludicrous. They are trained for several years and know much more than anyone else about the right ways to treat your dog. It's true that they do push foods that they sell but it is because they have had good results with those foods in the past. Urinary dogs in particular need to be on the food prescribed to maintain kidney health, pH, etc. NO, vets are not all out to get your money, and YES, they actually do care about your dog. I agree that veterinary care is expensive, but it is nothing compared to human health care. When one purchases a dog, they are making a commitment to take care of that animal until the end of their lives. Sometimes it costs money. Following your vet's instructions is your best bet for a healthy dog.
You're kidding, right? Following your vet's instruction is the best? I use my own judgement when it comes to my dog and would never feed him the crap our vet suggested (Science Diet). That is one of the worst foods on the market, with so many fillers that he is bound to suffer in the long run. We are very happy feeding him a 5 star, grainless food and he is doing wonderfully on it. The prescription diets at vets offices are some of the worst food out there that will only make the dog's condition worse. Fillers are no good. These foods are all corn, soy, rice, etc. Use your own judgement when it comes to your dog and you won't have the health issues in the future. If vets truly cared for dogs, they wouldn't tell you to feed them crap with fillers and by-products. And in the future, check out www.dogfoodanalysis.com to see how your food rates. You don't want anything with a lower than 4 star rating (6 being highest).
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Old 02-01-2009, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
1,808 posts, read 5,866,908 times
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OP here.

First, thanks to all of you who have attempted to provide useful information by posting links on dog food content. I appreciate the fact that you have tried to point me in the direction of credible information about what ingredients are found in popular dog food brands. I also appreciate those of you who took the time to supply further information via direct message.

My intent was to simply state a problem (the cost of the dog food recommended by my vet), and how best I could find the same food for a better price. I did not intend to spark a debate about the "evils" of the dog food industry - a simple search of this forum will yield plenty of threads that discussed this topic.

While I'm sure the spirit of the posted replies in this thread was not malicious, I do resent the threads that insinuated that I am not a good pet owner for trying to follow my vet's advice. FWIW, I was not pressured to buy the bag of dog food that I did. And, the vet presented other alternatives to me to help my poor dog deal with his bladder stones. However, I feel that I have to defer to his advice, as I am not a vet myself, nor do I have any veterinary training. His knowledge and experience are important to me, and I do not believe he was trying to push or up-sell me on any products or additional services.

I will continue to do my research on what to feed my dog. I am capable of forming my own opinion, but before I do any changes to Tonka's diet, I will consult with my vet. I think the two of us have Tonka's best interests at heart, and neither of us wish him poor health.

Perhaps it is time for the moderators to close this thread before the debate starts heading back down the wrong path.

Thanks.

Last edited by ctribucher; 02-01-2009 at 12:42 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 02-15-2009, 08:49 AM
 
59 posts, read 298,067 times
Reputation: 91
I always tell my customers at the animal hospital that there is no "best" food, only the food that works for their dog. I have had 2 dogs live very long, healthy lives on the "crap" food sold by vets. Good for you for standing up for yourself and your dog. You know your dog best, and I think your vet knows your dog second best. Unfortunately, it can be expensive and may be a lifelong treatment once you find the one that works for you. Urinary SO will be expensive no matter where you buy it. In my experience Purina prescription foods are a little less expensive then Royal Canin or Hills, maybe your vet carries a Purina equivalent. I hope this helps.
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