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Old 02-12-2009, 07:01 AM
 
Location: on an island
13,321 posts, read 29,644,918 times
Reputation: 12634
Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
Actually, I would just as soon NOT have my dog playing with strange dogs. I have even heard respected behaviorists who have said dogs don't need to play with other dogs, they need to play with their own pack.
This is the conclusion I have come to. We do have successful meetings with strange dogs, but only in our neighborhood, we no longer go to dog parks.
Maybe I'm a control freak, I dunno.

I am sure my old Rosie (mastiff) developed her chronic UTI problems because of spaying--she was fine before.
However, we neutered her predecessor, Tucker,(another mastiff) at about 8 months and he lived till 10 and a half, pretty good for a mastiff.
I agree that everyone should be aware of all the risks and benefits and that Fingers of Scorn should not be pointed at responsible dog owners who leave their pets intact.
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Old 02-12-2009, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
1,315 posts, read 4,505,929 times
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Please, bring this discussion back on topic. Dog parks are a great conversation for a separate thread.
Thanks!
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:05 AM
 
4 posts, read 2,272 times
Reputation: 20
I think that neutering is a great idea. However, i think there is a time and a place just as there is for everything else. If you think about it logically, a one year old puppy is 7 years old in human years. Would you castrate your 7 year old child? I highly doubt it. And one of the main reasons is because while there are negative side affects (too many dogs in shelters) there are also very good benefits that come from letting the dog utilize his hormones in order to allow him to complete the growth process. The key to this argument truly comes down to responsibility. If people were more responsible we wouldn't even be debating this topic right now because we wouldnt have let it spiral out of control. I have not seen many people who go to the vet regularly, keep up on their pets excercise needs, and keep up on attention needs who have dogs that are siring pups before the age of two. If you can be a responsible owner for just one year to 18 months and then get the neuter surgery it would be beneficial to your pet. If your not willing to be constantly vigilant in watching your dog, you probably shouldn't have one anyway. My issue is, why should my dog suffer from the possible negatives of a neuter surgery because other owners are not responsible? (i have a boy dog)

If you truly think about it logically you have to think who is telling you something is good and their motives behind it. Most people in charge of the spay and neuter at an early age campaign our shelter workers and shelter vets. They have an agenda and they will use expert power and and other persuasive messages to appeal to our human nature. For example, "your dog won't get testicular cancer if he;s neutered." Every dog own will relate to that because no one wants their dog to have cancer. However, does anyone ever say "having the surgery can cause certain kinds of cancer?" No. People may argue that there is no proof that neuter causes some types of cancer, however, there is also really no SOLID statistically data that indicates that a dog will get testicular cancer if it is not neutered.

Many people ask if I plan to have my male dog neutered and there is a very simple answer to that: YES!!!! Absolutely. However, logically it does not make sense to me if you think of it in terms of real life and not propaganda that would lead me to believe that taking out essential hormones for growth is anywhere near a good idea.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:15 AM
 
4 posts, read 2,272 times
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One last thought on that, please dont get me wrong. neutering is a great idea. just at the right time. Our human make up leads up to believe what we hear from the masses but i have always been one to question "hype" and general campaigns because there is no black and white answer to this topic that can be applied to each and every dog. Remember, in the 1950s smoking was good for you!!!
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:16 AM
 
3,528 posts, read 5,592,674 times
Reputation: 4621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo12 View Post
I think that neutering is a great idea. However, i think there is a time and a place just as there is for everything else. If you think about it logically, a one year old puppy is 7 years old in human years. Would you castrate your 7 year old child? I highly doubt it. And one of the main reasons is because while there are negative side affects (too many dogs in shelters) there are also very good benefits that come from letting the dog utilize his hormones in order to allow him to complete the growth process. The key to this argument truly comes down to responsibility. If people were more responsible we wouldn't even be debating this topic right now because we wouldnt have let it spiral out of control. I have not seen many people who go to the vet regularly, keep up on their pets excercise needs, and keep up on attention needs who have dogs that are siring pups before the age of two. If you can be a responsible owner for just one year to 18 months and then get the neuter surgery it would be beneficial to your pet. If your not willing to be constantly vigilant in watching your dog, you probably shouldn't have one anyway. My issue is, why should my dog suffer from the possible negatives of a neuter surgery because other owners are not responsible? (i have a boy dog)

If you truly think about it logically you have to think who is telling you something is good and their motives behind it. Most people in charge of the spay and neuter at an early age campaign our shelter workers and shelter vets. They have an agenda and they will use expert power and and other persuasive messages to appeal to our human nature. For example, "your dog won't get testicular cancer if he;s neutered." Every dog own will relate to that because no one wants their dog to have cancer. However, does anyone ever say "having the surgery can cause certain kinds of cancer?" No. People may argue that there is no proof that neuter causes some types of cancer, however, there is also really no SOLID statistically data that indicates that a dog will get testicular cancer if it is not neutered.

Many people ask if I plan to have my male dog neutered and there is a very simple answer to that: YES!!!! Absolutely. However, logically it does not make sense to me if you think of it in terms of real life and not propaganda that would lead me to believe that taking out essential hormones for growth is anywhere near a good idea.
There is one very large flaw in your argrument as far as a dog's maturity as compared to a humans. You have to use a sliding scale to compute the maturity of a dog. The 1 to 7 scale is completely out of date and no longer used. A one year old male dog is more along the lines of an 18 to 20 year old human - not a 7 year old child.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,586 posts, read 11,205,516 times
Reputation: 6198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo12 View Post
I think that neutering is a great idea. However, i think there is a time and a place just as there is for everything else. If you think about it logically, a one year old puppy is 7 years old in human years. Would you castrate your 7 year old child? I highly doubt it. And one of the main reasons is because while there are negative side affects (too many dogs in shelters) there are also very good benefits that come from letting the dog utilize his hormones in order to allow him to complete the growth process. The key to this argument truly comes down to responsibility. If people were more responsible we wouldn't even be debating this topic right now because we wouldnt have let it spiral out of control. I have not seen many people who go to the vet regularly, keep up on their pets excercise needs, and keep up on attention needs who have dogs that are siring pups before the age of two. If you can be a responsible owner for just one year to 18 months and then get the neuter surgery it would be beneficial to your pet. If your not willing to be constantly vigilant in watching your dog, you probably shouldn't have one anyway. My issue is, why should my dog suffer from the possible negatives of a neuter surgery because other owners are not responsible? (i have a boy dog)

If you truly think about it logically you have to think who is telling you something is good and their motives behind it. Most people in charge of the spay and neuter at an early age campaign our shelter workers and shelter vets. They have an agenda and they will use expert power and and other persuasive messages to appeal to our human nature. For example, "your dog won't get testicular cancer if he;s neutered." Every dog own will relate to that because no one wants their dog to have cancer. However, does anyone ever say "having the surgery can cause certain kinds of cancer?" No. People may argue that there is no proof that neuter causes some types of cancer, however, there is also really no SOLID statistically data that indicates that a dog will get testicular cancer if it is not neutered.

Many people ask if I plan to have my male dog neutered and there is a very simple answer to that: YES!!!! Absolutely. However, logically it does not make sense to me if you think of it in terms of real life and not propaganda that would lead me to believe that taking out essential hormones for growth is anywhere near a good idea.
I agree. If a dog owner is going to get their dog spayed or neutered they should wait at least until the dog has sexually matured. That is approximately 12 months for a female, and approximately 18 months for a male. While there is always risks involved with any surgical procedure, waiting until the dog is sexually mature will help reduce those risks.

Personally, I chose to have my female spayed and left my male intact. Each dog owner should educate themselves on the risks involved, and then weigh the pros and cons of spaying/neutering to determine if it is the right thing for them and their dog. It is not an easy decision to make, but it is a necessary decision that must be made.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,310 posts, read 21,057,411 times
Reputation: 6650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Va-Cat View Post
There is one very large flaw in your argrument as far as a dog's maturity as compared to a humans. You have to use a sliding scale to compute the maturity of a dog. The 1 to 7 scale is completely out of date and no longer used. A one year old male dog is more along the lines of an 18 to 20 year old human - not a 7 year old child.
I'm not sure I would neuter an 18 year old kid either, so I don't think the argument holds water to begin with...

That said, I don't understand why sterilization not involving the surgical removal of the gonadal tissue isn't embraced. Go ask a vet if they would perform a vasectomy or a tubal ligation - chances are they will think you're some kind of terrorist.
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Missouri today...
98 posts, read 52,325 times
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I believe allowing the dog to mature is best, usually around two years old.
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:23 PM
 
21 posts, read 23,925 times
Reputation: 29
Here is a link that I have just found, it seems to have much information and also references to back it up:

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongT...uterInDogs.pdf

Hope this helps!
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:46 PM
 
4 posts, read 2,272 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Va-Cat View Post
There is one very large flaw in your argrument as far as a dog's maturity as compared to a humans. You have to use a sliding scale to compute the maturity of a dog. The 1 to 7 scale is completely out of date and no longer used. A one year old male dog is more along the lines of an 18 to 20 year old human - not a 7 year old child.

Oh it was more of an anology stating that i don't feel that it's completely ethically appropriate or socially responsible to neuter males before maturity. (Keep in mind that I am not criticizing those that believe differently) I also don't feel that there is enough information out there to say either way in regards to the health issues involved. Another main issue I have is that so many individuals rush into the procedure, while it may be minor, without doing all the research of the pros and cons. I am the type of person who views my dog as I would view a child and I would not allow surgery for my child if i had not done all the research because then I wouldn't be being responsible. In my case, i do not have aggression issues with my dog or humping issues and that has in one way swayed my decision to wait. I also do not like how in many cases in history there have been national propaganda agendas that have ended up doing more harm then good.

Appropriate training and excercise can do wonders. My pup, a 7 1/2-8 month German Shepherd Chow mix was rescued off craiglist and it breaks my heart that there are so many dogs without homes. He excercises for about an hour a day, goes to the dog park about 4 times a week, and interacts with other people daily. I contribute his excercise level too his good behavior!!
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