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Old 06-20-2009, 03:37 AM
 
Location: Kenmore, WA
7,492 posts, read 6,486,772 times
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From the various posts and other information I am reading about the contributing causes to the homeless dog populations, is ignorance about the behaviors of a breed -- as well as about basic animal care. (Actually, one can say that about pretty much all of the human problems!)
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Old 06-20-2009, 04:37 AM
 
Location: on an island
13,382 posts, read 40,947,587 times
Reputation: 13245
Quote:
Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry View Post
From the various posts and other information I am reading about the contributing causes to the homeless dog populations, is ignorance about the behaviors of a breed -- as well as about basic animal care. (Actually, one can say that about pretty much all of the human problems!)
This had struck me from the beginning of the thread.
Personal responsibility and/or ignorance affects a wide spectrum of the human condition.
(And when this parallel occurred to me, as the anti-breeding posts appeared, I almost began a separate adoption vs breeding topic. That subject has certainly been explored here before. I doubt that anyone's mind will be changed--but if someone wants to take it on, I hope they have at it.)

There are so many facets to dog reproduction.
Not all health issues have genetic tests. Not all mutts benefit from "hybrid vigor."
Not all dogs are working breeds. For some dogs, their "job to do" is merely being a friendly companion.

Perhaps the most important questions responsible breeders can ask themselves is why they want to breed in the first place, and when is it time to quit.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:17 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,355 posts, read 16,868,377 times
Reputation: 11463
ding ding ding ......
we have a winner!!
BWP's last sentence says it all........
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Old 06-21-2009, 02:57 PM
 
7,983 posts, read 11,681,171 times
Reputation: 10484
Default Omg

Quote:
Originally Posted by zugor View Post
A reputable breeder is one who has very sound dogs. You know they are sound because the breeder is winning in the show ring,

The dog show ring, AKC etc. is the most politicized "world" I've ever seen. The standards stay the same but the dogs change due to trends and fads and what's hot in the ring. That "we breed to the standard" is such a bunch of hypocritical lying.

Collies with more hair are winning so all the breeders run home and breed collies with so much hair its insane. Of course in years past the collie narrow head is yet another example of a dog show fad gone bad - for the dog.

Don't ever swallow that market hype from AKC and its show breeders. They ruin breeds not vice versa.
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:01 AM
 
2,179 posts, read 6,620,882 times
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I agree with OMG,the AKC is literally a lie, I had a Irish setter who died and my neighbor took my papers to use for his setter, papers dont mean diddly,

If you want a good breeder visit their home unannounced, see how the puppies live and how they are cared for,ask when was the mothers last litter,this will give you some idea of how much the breeders care for the dog or if its a money machine

The biggest thing is to ask how old the pups have to be before they are able to leave . no breeder worth their salt will allow a puppy to leave before the age of 8 weeks, my breeder asked if I could wait till the pups were ten weeks . the longer they are with the pack the more sociable and balanced they are in life.

These puppy mills spit pups out and sell them @5/6 weeks old to the pet store.

I have a rescue doxie that was so inner bred at a puppy mill,she has every disease,allergy a dog can have and after 10 years I dont really trust her around strangers for she may revert back to her anti social behavior....well not anti social ....she wants to attack anyone or thing! but she is my favorite dog

the lady ordered this dog from a "breeder" by phone,I have thousands of $ in Dr. and medicine for this dog which all could be avoided if the lady knew what,who and how this dog was manufactured.

please dont buy your dogs from a pet store NO MATTER WHAT THEY CLAIM ABOUT THEIR BREEDERS!
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Old 02-05-2010, 06:51 AM
 
Location: on an island
13,382 posts, read 40,947,587 times
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The show world can indeed be political and faddish. We play no part in it, but I am not about to make a value judgment on people who get bitten by the show bug, nor would I ever paint them all with the same brush.
The AKC can be a real racket and we're not about to feed into it by purchasing a dog's papers, but I do enjoy watching the occasional dog show on TV.

We love mastiffs and we do buy from breeders. As I stated earlier in this thread, we are still in regular contact with the breeder we met in 1994.
They are not *all* like the neurotic people in the satire Best in Show.

Here are questions to ask a mastiff breeder. Among them are genetic testing, reason for breeding, how old the dam is and how often she has been bred.
Questions

Here is the code of ethics for the Mastiff Club of America.
Code of Ethics
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:20 AM
 
Location: California
10,091 posts, read 36,922,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htlong View Post
I agree with OMG,the AKC is literally a lie, I had a Irish setter who died and my neighbor took my papers to use for his setter, papers dont mean diddly,

If you want a good breeder visit their home unannounced, see how the puppies live and how they are cared for,ask when was the mothers last litter,this will give you some idea of how much the breeders care for the dog or if its a money machine

The biggest thing is to ask how old the pups have to be before they are able to leave . no breeder worth their salt will allow a puppy to leave before the age of 8 weeks, my breeder asked if I could wait till the pups were ten weeks . the longer they are with the pack the more sociable and balanced they are in life.

These puppy mills spit pups out and sell them @5/6 weeks old to the pet store.

I have a rescue doxie that was so inner bred at a puppy mill,she has every disease,allergy a dog can have and after 10 years I dont really trust her around strangers for she may revert back to her anti social behavior....well not anti social ....she wants to attack anyone or thing! but she is my favorite dog

the lady ordered this dog from a "breeder" by phone,I have thousands of $ in Dr. and medicine for this dog which all could be avoided if the lady knew what,who and how this dog was manufactured.

please dont buy your dogs from a pet store NO MATTER WHAT THEY CLAIM ABOUT THEIR BREEDERS!
Why would YOU allow your neighbor to take your deceased dogs papers for his dog? Talk about unethical.
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Old 02-05-2010, 09:27 AM
 
2,531 posts, read 5,371,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htlong View Post
I agree with OMG,the AKC is literally a lie, I had a Irish setter who died and my neighbor took my papers to use for his setter, papers dont mean diddly,
You're making AKC a lie by contributing to falsification of papers.
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Old 02-07-2010, 05:25 AM
 
2,179 posts, read 6,620,882 times
Reputation: 1681
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelbyGirl1 View Post
Why would YOU allow your neighbor to take your deceased dogs papers for his dog? Talk about unethical.
yeah I agree........... but it was the early 70's...........anything was "ethical back then" funny how things seem different as we age......like how smart our parents got as we grew older
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Old 02-07-2010, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Florida
478 posts, read 654,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mearth View Post
Responsible = NOT breeding AT ALL.

We don't need anymore homeless animals.
Agreed- fully and firmly. The words "responsible" and "breeder" shouldn't be used in the same sentence...If you really love dogs, then you do not do anything that would cause certain death to them- which, I'm sorry, is exactly what breeding does, like it or not. For every dog bred, whether from a so-called "responsible" breeder, or some schlup who just doesn't take the responsibility of spaying/neutering their animal, the birth and home placement of every one of those dogs guarantees that another will be put to death in his place.

When and if the day should come where there is no need for shelters because every dog already is loved and in a loving home, then fine- breed away. But when there are hundreds, thousands of nice, sweet, loving dogs that get put to death simply because they were abandoned, lost, or just the fact that nobody came to love them or want them during their stay at a shelter, then how can anyone justify making MORE dogs, dogs that will of course be sent to good homes while others are ignored and euthanized- and feel OK about it?!? I don't get that. People who love dogs want to help them, not ostracize them and/or ensure a death sentence for them.

Argue as you will that it's about keeping alive the "breed" because of specific traits, be it for hunting, police work, etc.- that's fine if that is what you believe is important but then please, at least be honest, and realize that you are not breeding because you love dogs, you are breeding because you believe that the needs of humans supercede that of the dogs' well being. Breeding is selfish and based on human needs, and irregardless of how much anyone loves their own dog/dogs, it has NOTHING to do with a true, genuine desire for the well being of dogs.

And it's not just the breeders I take issue with, it's the people who continue to BUY dogs from breeders. Fact is, breeders would stop if it were not profitable or if they had difficulty finding homes for all their dogs. So not only should breeders wake up, the general public should stop and think about what they're doing, and who they are supporting- and, as well, who they are hurting, which is other dogs- dogs that would absolutely love to be with them and their best friend but, instead, are going to die because nobody came to give them love or a home. Or because some people think they're gonna get a "better" dog from a breeder. Tell that to the dog that's getting put to sleep that he doesn't measure up to the dog you just bought...

I know I sound harsh, and it's not that I am against breeding if it were done in a place and time where there weren't so many unwanted, homeless dogs. But that's not how it currently is, so in good conscience I can't do anything but take serious issue with anything that helps kill more dogs, and breeding does...I really, really love dogs and just wish that others who say they love them too would show it by not contributing a any further to the dog population until every adoptable dog has a loving home.

So based on all that- sorry, but there isn't any such thing as a "responsible" breeder. There are simply those that treat the dogs they farm better than others.
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