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Old 02-11-2010, 05:08 AM
 
2,179 posts, read 6,607,033 times
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I have dogs in my home for one reason.....no one but the dogs can stand me!!
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Old 02-11-2010, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Piedmont NC
4,597 posts, read 10,418,395 times
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Probably one of the BEST things to come out of these poor economic times, is that the news is running stories of puppy mills and backyard breeders going out-of-business.

Be wary of your little Mom-and-Pop pet stores, too. One here where I live would have you believe they work with 'reputable' breeders, too, but brag they can find you any breed you want. They just call the list of millers, and have a dog shipped to them.

So much hype out there. All of the suggestions here have been good ones. My worry though, is the breeder, who gives all of the right answers but is lying through his teeth. That's when you have to make your own 'inspection' and pay attention to the dogs, themselves.

If you really want to know what kinds of lives these poor mill dogs live, join a breed-specific rescue group that goes to the mills to buy the dogs from the millers, or go to auctions, in an effort to rescue them. You can bet that for every dog that IS rescued, rehabilitated, and found a loving home for, there are more that live miserable lives, and ultimately die.

All three of our dogs have been rescues: a JRT that is 19 now (yes! 19!) who is the poster child for dogs adopted by the wrong owners -- because he was cute like My Dog, Skip; a beautiful Weimaraner, left tied to a tree at age 3, and one of the sweetest dogs I have ever known, so I have NO idea what the story was there, and just this past year, my little Cairn terrier, who was left an orphan when his elderly owner died.

Before you line the pockets of an irresponsible breeder (and many are, just that) or support a puppy mill out in the Midwest, please rescue a dog. If you are seeking a specific breed, you can probably find a rescue group for it, online. So many good dogs, so many b-a-d owners, so little time. . . for many of the animals.
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Old 02-11-2010, 01:11 PM
 
Location: on an island
13,382 posts, read 40,872,383 times
Reputation: 13244
::sigh::

With a couple of exceptions of people who diplomatically straddle both camps, this board seems to be made up of those who appreciate particular breeds, and those who ardently believe breeding is selfish, and that dog owners should only have rescues.

Seems like so many threads with the word "breeder" in it turn into train wrecks, with the mods refereeing the two warring factions.
There already have been countless threads about puppy mills and BRBs.
The OP had asked what makes a responsible breeder, and so much of the thread became finger pointing and hand-wringing.

Not sure breeding licenses do very much, don't some states already require them? Does it make Joe Backyard think twice? Maybe. I noted earlier in the thread that there already is some legislation in regards to keep unaltered animals, with the appropriate fines for not following the regulations. And we already have laws in place that are supposed to protect all animals.

As is usually the case, the responsible people follow the rules, the dirtbags don't, and the animal control people are over-worked and under-paid.

Helios, I am the opposite of you in that I had pound puppies and rescues all through my childhood and into adulthood.
I never had a purebred dog until I was almost 40 years old. Buying a pet of a specific breed was a mature and thoroughly researched decision, one made when our last mutt, a beautiful rusty-gold girl, was 12 years old and getting grey (she lived another 2 years, was still chasing tennis balls the week she died.) We knew what to ask, and what to look for.

Perhaps a responsible buyer helps keep breeders responsible.
My conscience is clear.

Thank you for the comic relief, htlong.

Last edited by BlueWillowPlate; 02-11-2010 at 01:30 PM..
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Piedmont NC
4,597 posts, read 10,418,395 times
Reputation: 9132
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWillowPlate View Post
Perhaps a responsible buyer helps keep breeders responsible.
Well said, BlueWillowPlate. Unfortunately, many people are not well-informed. I just did a home visit for a family who wanted a Cairn puppy, and they have since learned -- the first Cairn came from the Mom-and-Pop pet store here years ago, but now they know what they bought, and supported, unknowingly. They actually got a puppy born to one of the former mill mommas, this time around. She was rescued just before delivering this last litter.

I see nothing wrong with having a favorite breed, and wanting one. I am fond of terriers -- just love the little scrappy guys! -- and my husband grew up with Weemies. I just hope others, like you, will do the research, make sure the breed is right for them, and then find a puppy or dog from a reputable breeder.

I chose a rescue Cairn this time around because I am just not up to raising a puppy right now, but down the road, I really would like a Cairn puppy, or possibly its smaller look-a-lot-alike, the Norwich or Norfolk terrier.

Enjoy your dog!
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:36 PM
 
2,792 posts, read 3,648,557 times
Reputation: 1547
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldenfatt View Post
I breed, and with a total disregard for the American Kennel Club. Their breed clubs have an understanding of genetics that apparently stopped right after WW I and Eugenics. For working breeds, the worst thing I have seen happen is they are accepted into the AKC and their abominations they call shows. Once a breed has split into working and show lines, the breed is in decline. I already had Great Danes when I began work on my Biology degree and realized there was something intrinsically wrong with the way the breed is actually split by the AKC into 4 different sub-breeds by color. By the time I finished my Masters I understood it was because breeders are terrified of high-demand Harlequin dogs returning to being the genetic rarity they otherwise are- hurting the bottom line. Never mind that about half of Danes have congenital problems- they die young anyway.
The AKC is made up in large part by people whose livelihood depends on puppy sales, not by those dedicated to the welfare of the dogs.The only thing the AKC truly promotes is its own continued existence.
I totally agree! Ever compare pics of dog breeds (& cats,too ,for that matter) of long ago to pics of the breeds now? It's shocking. Personally, I love the rich & ancient histories of all the different breeds, & hope we are never so over-policed that we end up w/ no more true breeds, just a big merging of anything & everything.
I believe that the people that are in these breed clubs should change things, breeding practices,etc. To me, when I hear "has papers" a flag goes up, that they may just be in it for the $$. They need to be focused on the overall health & temperment of their dogs, and NOT breed bad or even "OK" specimens for ANY reason!

The BBC show Pedigree Dogs Exposed sure was an eye-opener, and a major tear-jerker.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:53 PM
 
2,792 posts, read 3,648,557 times
Reputation: 1547
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWillowPlate View Post
::sigh::

With a couple of exceptions of people who diplomatically straddle both camps, this board seems to be made up of those who appreciate particular breeds, and those who ardently believe breeding is selfish, and that dog owners should only have rescues.

Seems like so many threads with the word "breeder" in it turn into train wrecks, with the mods refereeing the two warring factions.
There already have been countless threads about puppy mills and BRBs.
The OP had asked what makes a responsible breeder, and so much of the thread became finger pointing and hand-wringing.

Not sure breeding licenses do very much, don't some states already require them? Does it make Joe Backyard think twice? Maybe. I noted earlier in the thread that there already is some legislation in regards to keep unaltered animals, with the appropriate fines for not following the regulations. And we already have laws in place that are supposed to protect all animals.

As is usually the case, the responsible people follow the rules, the dirtbags don't, and the animal control people are over-worked and under-paid.

Helios, I am the opposite of you in that I had pound puppies and rescues all through my childhood and into adulthood.
I never had a purebred dog until I was almost 40 years old. Buying a pet of a specific breed was a mature and thoroughly researched decision, one made when our last mutt, a beautiful rusty-gold girl, was 12 years old and getting grey (she lived another 2 years, was still chasing tennis balls the week she died.) We knew what to ask, and what to look for.

Perhaps a responsible buyer helps keep breeders responsible.
My conscience is clear.

Thank you for the comic relief, htlong.
Great post!

"Perhaps a responsible buyer helps keep breeders responsible." Great point, and thanks to the OP for helping others learn what to look for & what to beware of.
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:03 AM
 
18 posts, read 28,991 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by KsStorm View Post
I totally agree! Ever compare pics of dog breeds (& cats,too ,for that matter) of long ago to pics of the breeds now? It's shocking. Personally, I love the rich & ancient histories of all the different breeds, & hope we are never so over-policed that we end up w/ no more true breeds, just a big merging of anything & everything.

I believe that the people that are in these breed clubs should change things, breeding practices,etc.

Many people in breed clubs aren't informed about or aware of these changes. A few weeks ago, I made the mistake of raising the subject of correct working coat in a certain breed, on an internet forum for that breed. Cries of "troll" and "unworthy" flew all around. Um, people ...it's not just the coat that's been bred into a mockery of earlier examples of the breed.

It's also interesting to read certain breed "histories" by people who've bought the current version of their breed as the original. My Landseer ECTs (European Continental Type -- not recognised as a breed in North America) are arguably closer to the original Newfoundland dogs than are most of the Newfs around today. But Newf people often try to "educate" me about what kind of dogs I have: incorrect Newfs, apparently. I haven't yet succumbed to the temptation to ask if their dogs are black St. Bernards ...
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Old 02-14-2010, 10:02 AM
 
5,640 posts, read 17,290,233 times
Reputation: 3979
The breeder we purchased from has a initiative for excellent temperments. Also, she does not breed until she has homes for the puppies first. You have to be put on a waiting list. Ours is a pet quality dog - we finally got one from her after a year and a half wait. Most people are too "instant gratification" for that unfortunately. The dogs she sells are also working dogs - and she interviewed us and actually got us into the working part of the hobby. It is very much fun. We had to sign something that if we could no longer keep the dog because of changing life circumstances (home repo, divorce, etc.) we must give the dog back to her. She does not want ANY of her pups going to a pound.
The parents were both cerfd. We had this breed of dog several times before, so she only sold the pup to us after she interviewed us and called up our vet.
The club she (and we) are in now, is involved with the breed rescue and is continually fostering and trying to find homes for these unfortunates.
I do not hesitate to recommend our breeder to someone looking for a dog of our breed, but I also warn that she may not sell to them. And let these people know when we have a rescue available!
I am continually on a soapbox to people to avoid buying from a petshop - but rarely do they listen to me!
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:20 PM
 
2,792 posts, read 3,648,557 times
Reputation: 1547
Quote:
Originally Posted by gardener34 View Post
The breeder we purchased from has a initiative for excellent temperments. Also, she does not breed until she has homes for the puppies first. You have to be put on a waiting list. Ours is a pet quality dog - we finally got one from her after a year and a half wait. Most people are too "instant gratification" for that unfortunately. The dogs she sells are also working dogs - and she interviewed us and actually got us into the working part of the hobby. It is very much fun. We had to sign something that if we could no longer keep the dog because of changing life circumstances (home repo, divorce, etc.) we must give the dog back to her. She does not want ANY of her pups going to a pound.
The parents were both cerfd. We had this breed of dog several times before, so she only sold the pup to us after she interviewed us and called up our vet.
The club she (and we) are in now, is involved with the breed rescue and is continually fostering and trying to find homes for these unfortunates.
I do not hesitate to recommend our breeder to someone looking for a dog of our breed, but I also warn that she may not sell to them. And let these people know when we have a rescue available!
I am continually on a soapbox to people to avoid buying from a petshop - but rarely do they listen to me!
Now THAT sounds like a good breeder! Can I ask what breed of dog it is? Good to hear positive stories about breeders nowadays!
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