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Old 07-01-2009, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Bristol, England, UK
158 posts, read 438,307 times
Reputation: 165

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Honestly, All those who think he will be a bad egg, I just dont feel this is right. I own a Staffy, they have got a similar reputation in the UK like Pitballs in America.
My girl Baker is the cutest little dog there is, shes quite simialr to Hobbs in personality... To that absolute idiot who posted to put him down is really stupid! He clearly has no experience on dog behaviour. Any books, any people and any trainer will tell you to NEVER move an animal or disturb it when sleeping!! Its a huuuuuuuuuuge no no! Baker has bitten me and my partner for us doing exactly that, we told her off for it and she never did it again. Baker also isnt all that keen on cats, most dogs are not and thats not a crime, it doesnt mean that dog will hurt a child. Baker has never bit a child nor made any attempts to. She hasnt yet attacked a cat, but she likes to chase them.. I dont believe she would hurt them, but hey, dogs dont always like cats! Its normal! Look at cats and birds?! Any cat would chase a bird if it was your pet.. Its something you cant change.. So dont blame the dog or tarnish it becuase it went by a bit of instinct.

Putting down a dog because it has defended itself or because it has hurt a cat/kitten is so so wrong! If that dog was a little toy dog and hurt a cat, I bet people wouldnt be so "concerned" with Hobbs. But because certain dogs have reputations, they are immediatly deemed as a bad dog! Its so unfair on the dog who looking at it, is not a bad dog or an exteamly bad case..

 
Old 07-01-2009, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 34,294,615 times
Reputation: 7073
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild_spirited_elz View Post
Honestly, All those who think he will be a bad egg, I just dont feel this is right. I own a Staffy, they have got a similar reputation in the UK like Pitballs in America.
My girl Baker is the cutest little dog there is, shes quite simialr to Hobbs in personality... To that absolute idiot who posted to put him down is really stupid! He clearly has no experience on dog behaviour. Any books, any people and any trainer will tell you to NEVER move an animal or disturb it when sleeping!! Its a huuuuuuuuuuge no no! Baker has bitten me and my partner for us doing exactly that, we told her off for it and she never did it again. Baker also isnt all that keen on cats, most dogs are not and thats not a crime, it doesnt mean that dog will hurt a child. Baker has never bit a child nor made any attempts to. She hasnt yet attacked a cat, but she likes to chase them.. I dont believe she would hurt them, but hey, dogs dont always like cats! Its normal! Look at cats and birds?! Any cat would chase a bird if it was your pet.. Its something you cant change.. So dont blame the dog or tarnish it becuase it went by a bit of instinct.

Putting down a dog because it has defended itself or because it has hurt a cat/kitten is so so wrong! If that dog was a little toy dog and hurt a cat, I bet people wouldnt be so "concerned" with Hobbs. But because certain dogs have reputations, they are immediatly deemed as a bad dog! Its so unfair on the dog who looking at it, is not a bad dog or an exteamly bad case..
I actually agree with most of what you are saying, but I have met a lot of labs and a lot of pitties that would never bite in response to a compressed paw. My golden will mouth my hands when I'm cutting out mats in his hair if it gets uncomfortable, I had a very dominant labrador that would do the same for drops in his ears and I knew a german shepherd who yelped loudly and nipped my wrist when I accidentally sat on his leg. Those are appropriate responses from dogs with an understanding of limits. Biting to the point of broken skin and bruising is plainly unacceptable. It doesn't necessarily mean that a child would be bitten, but it means that the dog is capable of a full-intent bite with minimal stimulus. Children are very capable of completely innocent minimal stimulus.

A dog that is not cat compatible is certainly not a crime and expecting all dogs to get along with cats is probably unreasonable, but evidence of willingness to do harm to cats can complicate re-homing. I don't think Hobbs deserves a strike for the kitten incident, labs have a drive to hold things in their mouths and pits tend to have accentuated prey drives. Seems in line with what he is.

I don't think Hobbs is a trustworthy dog. If the OP is willing to accept that and work around it, I applaud the effort but I wouldn't take the risk and now that Sun knows what she's dealing with she's guilty if Hobbs does something really egregious later.
 
Old 07-01-2009, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,547 posts, read 17,472,426 times
Reputation: 16765
Quote:
Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry View Post
You have got to be SO disappointed. I am so sorry to read this. It hurts me, too.

I did an online search, and didn't find anything specific to Labs, except BYBs.

Is there any chance at all that this could be resolved with more - different efforts? Not knowing the details, is there a way that somehow the dog felt threatened by the kitten? I know that sounds weird, but size doesn't equate to level of threat in a dogs mind, and if this one had an uncertain background, there might have been some "trigger" that you didn't understand?

If you are absolutely certain you cannot continue with the dog, perhaps you can contact the HS and determine if there are foster parents in your area?

Feeling inadequate, wishing I could help more than these paltry words....
My new dog, a five year old mid size beagle, had never seen a cat before meeting mine. She is a very very small ball of (lots and lots of ) black fur. Pammy went right up to her and playbowed. Furball looked at this large lumbering thing and hissed and bat at the nose and missed before retreating. Pammy figured out she didn't want to get too close. Until things settle down and the cat quit hissing this really small cat could send the dog across the room with a hiss.

Its been about a month, and the cat presents her butt for shiffing (yeah, she was 4 weeks old when she last saw a cat and learned from my old dog) and the play chase when nobody is looking. But I made very much of an effort to play with the cat in pammy's view, to pet both and transfer scent and all three get fed at the same time. Pammy knows the cat is part of her pack. But the way she jumped about and did not show caution at first worried me. If Furball had gotten her with a claw she might have snapped back.

Dogs are very social and will learn what constitues the pack if you show them. In the case of the OP, if Hobbs doesn't attack the first cat he can be taught. And a tiny kitten must be protected from both adult animals. I'd be very cautious about a cat who doesn't like other cats since she/he may not give up. Mine was found at four weeks and doesn't know anything about cats at all. Being small a larger cat could hurt her badly, especially since she is afraid of them and has never learned to defend herself. I'd never put her in the positon of being hurt. She has the seniority.

Last edited by nightbird47; 07-01-2009 at 12:30 PM..
 
Old 07-01-2009, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Bristol, England, UK
158 posts, read 438,307 times
Reputation: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
I actually agree with most of what you are saying, but I have met a lot of labs and a lot of pitties that would never bite in response to a compressed paw. My golden will mouth my hands when I'm cutting out mats in his hair if it gets uncomfortable, I had a very dominant labrador that would do the same for drops in his ears and I knew a german shepherd who yelped loudly and nipped my wrist when I accidentally sat on his leg. Those are appropriate responses from dogs with an understanding of limits. Biting to the point of broken skin and bruising is plainly unacceptable. It doesn't necessarily mean that a child would be bitten, but it means that the dog is capable of a full-intent bite with minimal stimulus. Children are very capable of completely innocent minimal stimulus.

A dog that is not cat compatible is certainly not a crime and expecting all dogs to get along with cats is probably unreasonable, but evidence of willingness to do harm to cats can complicate re-homing. I don't think Hobbs deserves a strike for the kitten incident, labs have a drive to hold things in their mouths and pits tend to have accentuated prey drives. Seems in line with what he is.

I don't think Hobbs is a trustworthy dog. If the OP is willing to accept that and work around it, I applaud the effort but I wouldn't take the risk and now that Sun knows what she's dealing with she's guilty if Hobbs does something really egregious later.
So did Baker, she drew blood on me, but she never did it again and that was a yr ago now.. If Hobbs was severely repremanded, there is that chance he wouldnt do it again. Yes, there is a chance he would and if you dont know the dogs history its hard to come to any conclusions to whether he would again. Yes, pits have got that prey drive. BUT it was also bred into the animal to like and follow human because they were working dogs. This is why they made good bull fighters, they wernt bred to hurt human only animals, this is sometimes why pits and stafs (being of the same kind of background) dont generally get on with other pets.
But its the upbringing from the pups mother and how it has been brought up from a puppy with a human that affects how the dog behaves in later life... So with no history who knows.. But from what Sun has said he just doesnt seem like that of a bad case..

Another woman on here had an Japanese Akita (another dog from similar background) and the rescue centre said that he would be a cat killer and could never be really trusted, shes had him for quite sometime now with her cat and they get on very well... The dog even brings his toys to cat to play with him.. But clearly, the dog must of attacked or had an intent to hurt in the past and was called branded the mark of being an untrustworthy dog...
 
Old 07-01-2009, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,547 posts, read 17,472,426 times
Reputation: 16765
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunInHair View Post
The shelter I adopted Hobbs from told me he was okay with cats because they did that (obviously unreliable) "cat" test with him by parading him past the cats in cages. Because there was NO history on Hobbs, they did not know if he had lived with cats or dogs. He was getting along okay with our adult cat because she wouldn't let him too close to her. I think adding a kitten was too much for Hobbs who must be jealous. About biting humans: I don't feel he is aggressive at all. The bite my husband received was in response to my husband accidentally sitting on Hobbs. Hobbs has never growled or barked at anyone coming to the door or into the home--quite the opposite--he wants to be friends with everyone! But because he bit in response to being hurt, I would not trust him with small children. I believe Hobbs would do really well in an adult home as the only pet. Have been trying to find a rescue group, maybe one in AZ, who will take Hobbs and I will provide all the info I have about him.
My ex got a beautiful full breed St Bernard from the Humane society. They had tested him for temperment. We didn't have a place to keep him yet, as escrow got delayed, but he was being boarded with someone. He was great the first week. Okay the second. Then he decided it was his territory (as he never had at the shelter).

He lunged at anyone with dark skin. He was fine with my ex and the guy taking care of him but would not let anyone else close. A chicken got in his space and he killed and ate it.

The guy wanted to keep him but did not register him, so we picked him up and had to put him down. Unlike Hobbs, who isn't normally agressive, once this dog "settled in" he was. Its not the dogs fault but the scum of a human who made him that way.

The group who rehabilited Michael Vics dogs should have a suggestion even if they can't take him in. Hobbs deserves a good home. The pitts they rehibilted are happy family dogs now so Hobbs should do fine.

Just watch the kitten with the cat. Some cats never will get over a new cat and beat up the interloper forever.
 
Old 07-01-2009, 02:24 PM
 
Location: James Island, SC
1,628 posts, read 3,154,898 times
Reputation: 927
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunInHair View Post
Adopted the new kitten for *companionship for the adult cat*. Yes, it was a mistake (not an ego thing!). Have been doing research and talked to a person who heads one of the region's no-kill rescue/adoption organizations. She gave me some excellent info over the phone about working with Hobbs and gave me the names of 2 dog trainers to consult with. I'm giving this my best shot with the training because I do believe Hobbs is trainable and I'm not one to give up without trying. Also reading the book on positive dog training by Pat McConnell as suggested by a couple of posters--what an excellent book!
YAY
 
Old 07-01-2009, 05:09 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
2,806 posts, read 6,500,485 times
Reputation: 3275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley_man View Post
It's not just enough to adopt the dog!!! Going to the shelter and finding a dog you can rescue is the easy part. Actually making it work with your adopted dog is the real challenge. Anybody can "try to rescue a dog with issues". I'm sorry i'm just not going to hand out virtual sympathy hugs when it's Hobbs who is getting the short end of the stick. I don't think she is a bad person, but I think I can say when it comes to dog psychology she might not be as educated as she needs to be!!!
I understand where you're coming from...I just needed to point out that it is possible to find a better home for Hobbs...if you could see some of the dogs I've taken in as fosters to prevent them from being put down or stuck in a shelter forever, you wouldn't believe it would be possible to find them great homes...but it WAS possible, and they are all happy & loved now! Some were older, disfigured, whiners/barkers...you name it...there is always a perfect match for them out there somewhere, you just have to find it. But in the OP's situation, she does have a pre-existing older cat who is at risk, and the people she adopted Hobbs from said he was okay with cats...not her fault. Getting a 2nd kitten wasn't the greatest idea (for Hobbs OR the older cat), but the fact remains that the animal she already committed herself to is in danger as long as Hobbs is in that house, unless there is a way to keep the animals separated...
 
Old 07-01-2009, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Illinois
718 posts, read 1,798,845 times
Reputation: 973
Husband, kitty, do you have children? How about a neighbors child? Time for Hobbs to leave .....why would you want to live with an animal you cannot trust? Four legged or two legged??
 
Old 07-01-2009, 11:42 PM
 
Location: James Island, SC
1,628 posts, read 3,154,898 times
Reputation: 927
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnKK View Post
Husband, kitty, do you have children? How about a neighbors child? Time for Hobbs to leave .....why would you want to live with an animal you cannot trust? Four legged or two legged??

Give her a break - she's doing the right thing.

PS - Because HOBBES WAS THERE FIRST
 
Old 07-02-2009, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Rural New Mexico
557 posts, read 2,316,624 times
Reputation: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnKK View Post
Husband, kitty, do you have children? How about a neighbors child? Time for Hobbs to leave .....why would you want to live with an animal you cannot trust? Four legged or two legged??
My husband's good with animals; we have no children. We live in the country. Nearest child lives half an hour away and never comes over. No domestic animals close enough to wonder onto our property. The chickens are not free range and Hobbs is not allowed near them. Hobbs is extremely cautious about walking too close to the adult cat who daily demonstrates she is in charge. He's afraid of her! Had an interesting incident yesterday. I was standing with the cat in my arms who suddenly jumped down onto the dog's back as a springboard to the floor! Dog didn't react at all. BTW, can *any* animal be *fully* trusted? I think not.
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