U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-05-2009, 07:48 PM
Sco
 
4,259 posts, read 4,226,307 times
Reputation: 3358

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrs1885 View Post
Dogs aren't spayed / neutered only because of accidental litters. Reproductive cancer rate soar the older a dog gets. If I remember by the time they're like 7 years old there's a 50% risk of testicular cancer in males. Females are very prone to mammary cancers and uterine / ovarian cancer as well.

Aside from the medical reason, there are behavior issues associated with unaltered males and females. Spraying, moodiness, escaping, etc.

There's no reason to not neuter / spay a dog unless you are a responsible, reputable breeder that is trying to improve the lines of a pure bred working or showing dog.
I am sorry, but I have to call BS on your post. Even if the testicular cancer risk is as high as you claim, guess what the treatment is - castration. Advocating the prevention of testicular cancer by preemptive castration would be like advising that the best way to prevent breast cancer is mastectomy and a nice way to prevent hip dysplasia is full hip replacements in all pups.

It is also completely false that there are no reasons to not neuter a dog. Beyond the obvious risk of death and injury from the surgery, there are many long term health risks that are caused by neutering:

Moderator cut: copyright
While you may personally choose to neuter your dogs, it is negligent to advise someone to make this choice without giving them both the pros and cons of the procedure.


To the OP, my advice would be to bring the dog home give him 2-3 months to settle in and evaluate whether you feel neutering is even necessary. Most of the supposed behavioral benefits of neutering are hype and if he is already well behaved, trainable and you are able to keep him properly confined, there may be no reason to ever have him neutered.

Last edited by Keeper; 07-06-2009 at 05:26 PM.. Reason: post a link and a snippet
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-05-2009, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Mountains of middle TN
5,240 posts, read 13,979,023 times
Reputation: 6062
You're quite entitled to your opinion, but the vast majority of vets in this country will disagree with you. And the millions of dogs being killed every year in shelter will definitely agree with you. And if you re-read my post on the rate of testicular cancer, I said 'I believe'. I didn't have the exact stats with me, but I know they are astronomically high.

You're also trying to humanize a dog. Having a woman undergo a full mastectomy is a psychological trauma, not just a medical issue. Dogs have no emotional attachment to their reproductive organs, so you can't compare the two; it's apples and oranges.

There are risks with any surgery, but in this case, the benefits by far out weigh the risks. Not altering a dog that you don't plan on breeding is, IMO, incredibly irresponsible.

Out of curiosity, you're providing your advice. What background do you have to tell someone to not alter their pet? I've got 35+ years of dog ownership, vet tech background, and over 12 years of rescue work. I'm pretty confident in my knowledge.

Good reading for those interested:

SPAY-USA (http://www.spayusa.org/main_directory/02-facts_and_education/benefits_sn.asp - broken link)

For male specifically:

Quote:
in intact male dogs these tumors are considered fairly common. Testicular tumors are most common in intact older male dogs; however, they can occur in intact males of any age. There does not appear to be any breed predilection for these tumors. The current cause of testicular tumors is unknown. Dogs that have one or both testicles that are not descended (cryptorchid) are 13 times more likely to develop a tumor in the undescended testicle than dogs with normal testicles. Except for the increased risk of these tumors in cryptorchid dogs, no other risk factors are readily apparent.
Taken from:

http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm...l.jsp?id=94469
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2009, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,535 posts, read 10,844,694 times
Reputation: 19114
I've been in this situation three times and had two done immediately. Both of those dogs adjusted much more quickly. The first time I had waited to let him adjust and it seemed we had to do it all over again. The second period of becoming comfortable took several months instead of a couple of weeks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2009, 02:58 PM
 
895 posts, read 2,141,868 times
Reputation: 358
First of all there are negative aspects to neutering/spaying as well unlike most people here saying its 100% good.

Read this

Moderator cut: copyright

Almost ALL dogs that end up being euthanized are from puppy mills and had very bad characters, were given up and had to be euthanized, not from a random intact male dog. Neutering makes alot of sense when we are talking about "street populations" of dogs, but as said before the majority of euthanized dogs come from puppy mills, not unwanted litters and even then most unwanted litters are from irresponsible owners or people who just let their dog loose or just "throw them away" outside.

There are obvious benefits from neutering as well, and since your dog is 2 years old already you should neuter him whenever you can if you want to. I only advize to neuter after the dog is 1-2 years old, and yours is already at that age. Did you know dogs that are neutered when puppies are actually bigger and have higher % of weight problems then intact or dogs neutered after 1-2 years? If you neuter a dog at like 3-6 months for example they won't mature like they should, and might have perpetual puppy syndrome.

Personally i am a fan of neutering all dogs but when it comes to my dogs i neuter them after they reach their maximum adult height and body weight, since if i neuter them before they will be abnormal and bigger. Usually around 1-2 years is a good time for a responsible owner to neuter/spay their dog.

Last edited by Keeper; 07-06-2009 at 05:31 PM.. Reason: copyright violation/post a snippet and a link
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2009, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Mountains of middle TN
5,240 posts, read 13,979,023 times
Reputation: 6062
Where did you find that information? I've found the opposite to be true in females and males with their behavior. I've had 2 females recently that had serious behavioral / temperament issues. Both of them were markedly changed within 2 months of spay. I've also seen multiple studies, both new and old, showing dogs that are altered live longer than unaltered pets. It also seems the big issue with spay / neuter is urinary problems. If there is a slight risk that they'll dribble after going pee, I'll take that over a death from cancer anyday.

Again, your post contradicts every single study I've ever seen. And I've read many of them over the last 15+ years. It seems to me PETA has done it's own study and skewed some numbers to make the results appear the way they want them to be seen.

Aside from the multitude of studies I've read over the years, I've seen the results personally in the dogs I've fostered and owned. I'd never put one of my own personal dogs at risk, and every single one of mine has been altered within a week of hitting my door.

And the debate on juvi altering is on going, with some of the top vets in the country on opposite sides of the arguement, so I don't think either of us can definitely say beyond the shadow of a doubt that early spay / neuter causes problems. That's something I'll happily sit back and let the real experts figure out. As for me, I don't do juvi alterations, but not because I think it's dangerous, I just like them to be older and bigger before undergoing surgery. It's me being over protective.

As for almost all dogs that are euthanized are puppy mill dogs, that's kind of obvious. The vast majority of the problem of over population in this country is from puppy mills. If they're cranking out 80% of the puppies, it only stands to reason that more of them will wind up in shelters euth'd.

With the last line, what credentials do you have to tell someone what a responsible age is to spay / neuter when the tops vets can't agree? I'm really, really wanting to read the study you've found and see who it was conducted by.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2009, 05:36 PM
 
13,773 posts, read 33,828,405 times
Reputation: 10553
Quote:
Almost ALL dogs that end up being euthanized are from puppy mills and had very bad characters, were given up and had to be euthanized, not from a random intact male dog. Neutering makes alot of sense when we are talking about "street populations" of dogs, but as said before the majority of euthanized dogs come from puppy mills, not unwanted litters and even then most unwanted litters are from irresponsible owners or people who just let their dog loose or just "throw them away" outside.
I don't know where you got your information but most dogs who are euthanized are not pure bred dogs although they may have been sired by puppymill dogs. There are 3-4 million of homeless dogs/cats killed every year because they are not wanted.

HSUS Pet Overpopulation Estimates | The Humane Society of the United States (http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affecting_our_pets/pet_overpopulation_and_ownership_statistics/hsus_pet_overpopulation_estimates.html - broken link)

Last edited by Keeper; 07-06-2009 at 05:39 PM.. Reason: edit
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2009, 06:00 PM
 
Location: CA
830 posts, read 2,357,683 times
Reputation: 1008
Quote:
Almost ALL dogs that end up being euthanized are from puppy mills and had very bad characters, were given up and had to be euthanized, not from a random intact male dog.
Good lord, have you been to an animal shelter?

Those typical shelters running at a 50%-60% dog kill rate - you think all those dogs were from puppy mills and/or had bad characters? I don't know what to be more outraged about - the assertion that all dogs killed in shelters were purebred puppymill dogs, or that you think 50% of dogs have bad characters.

Believe me, plenty of puppies in shelters (and growing up on the street, and growing up chained in a backyard) were just someone's unneutered dog's puppies, or a stray unneutered dog's puppies. That's been my experience both out here in the boonies, where people let their unneutered dogs escape their yards and run free around town, and when I lived in a major urban center where feral dogs had puppies under bridges, loosely cared for by construction/factory folks nearby, occasionally hauled in by animal control and then killed for space.

Not saying puppymills aren't at fault, or aren't despicable, because they are - but they aren't the only producers of puppies being killed in shelters.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2009, 06:17 PM
 
371 posts, read 1,115,328 times
Reputation: 214
the shelters seem to neuter very soon after receiving a dog, before going to their new home and some 'rescuers' told me the same...they neuter the dog very soon after taking them in for fostering.
I was also concerned about the day or two after. My kids will be excited to play with him- didn't know if they are in a lot of pain or just need to lay alone a day or so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2009, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,535 posts, read 10,844,694 times
Reputation: 19114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liza54 View Post
the shelters seem to neuter very soon after receiving a dog, before going to their new home and some 'rescuers' told me the same...they neuter the dog very soon after taking them in for fostering.
I was also concerned about the day or two after. My kids will be excited to play with him- didn't know if they are in a lot of pain or just need to lay alone a day or so.

There's certainly some discomfort. Your dog will definitely need a few days of rest and limited activity. Keep your children restrained. A dog is a living creature, not a toy. Dogs can suffer both physical and psychological pain.

I find your use of quotation marks around "rescuers" very disturbing. Don't you think that they rescue animals? Don't you believe that animals often need to be rescued?

You need to consider very carefully whether you should have a dog. Dogs certainly need homes, but they need the right homes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2009, 08:29 PM
 
895 posts, read 2,141,868 times
Reputation: 358
Um most puppy mills are from peoples backyards and are NOT purebred dogs. If you think puppymills are some kind of good pure-breeding thing then you are completely wrong here. A puppymill isnt some huge company chucking out low quality pure bred dogs, it's people breeding dogs in their backyards often in horrible conditions.
Quote:
Puppy mills contribute to millions of unwanted dogs who are euthanized each year in the United States.
Mill puppies are more likely to have severe health problems, genetic defects and behavioral issues.
Documented puppy mill conditions include over-breeding, inbreeding, minimal veterinary care, poor food and shelter, crowded cages and lack of socialization.
Dogs kept for breeding in puppy mills suffer for years and are bred as often as possible before they are killed, sold through auction like used cars or abandoned.
http://www.awarenessday.org/dogs.html
Kill The Puppy Mill

You can read about the negative aspects of neutering here.
The Negative Aspects of Neutering Your Pet (http://dogtorj.net/id79.html - broken link)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top