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Old 09-18-2009, 10:31 AM
 
4,248 posts, read 6,654,052 times
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ugh! I have two Shih Tzus that are now 14 months old and continue to ruin my carpet. I've tried Spot Shot - does not work. I have tried that orange enzyme cleaner. While it may get up the smell, there are so many spots I'd need ten gallons. I plan to have all the carpets done and deodorized this fall. No doubt they'll keep on though. Anyone have any recommendations? Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-18-2009, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Mostly in my head
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Yeah - train them. Search this forum for Viralmd's notes on how to housetain a dog and follow them to the letter!
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Old 09-18-2009, 06:14 PM
 
7,081 posts, read 24,610,518 times
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Training just doesn't 'happen.' You have to put in effort and work.

And if the dogs are going on all the carpets, why are you letting them on the carpets? YOU are in charge and need to restrict their movements. Put on their leashes and leash them to your waistband, if necessary. Buy some baby gates.

If they were previously trained, you need to make sure there's no urinary tract infection going on, because that's the single most common reason for a previously trained dog to have accidents.

AND you have to clean up the accidents COMPLETELY with Nature's Miracle or Simple Solution - available everywhere. It might take several applications, but if you don't clean it up completely it's going to still smell of urine (to them) and be very attractive.

Here's my housetraining post. Follow it TO THE LETTER, including the part about going out with your dogs on a leash and the excellent treats (not crap from the store). And one more thing: NO SCOLDING for accidents.

Housetraining your dog (puppy or adult!)

The first thing you need to do is to remember that you’re trying to reinforce a new behavior. That means that the rewards for this behavior must be WONDERFUL. NOT crap from the store. Wonderful treats are poached chicken breast/turkey breast, cheese and steak. And you don’t have to use big pieces. Tiny pieces (about 3mm cubes) are just fine! I poach a whole turkey breast every few weeks, cut it into hunks when it’s cool enough to handle, wrap them well and store them in the freezer. When I need some, I’ll thaw a hunk overnight and cut off pieces and dice finely, storing them in a plastic bag in the fridge. One hunk will last about five days. Cheese is also popular, so variety is fine.

I carry these plastic bags in my jacket pockets in the winter and in a fanny pack in warmer weather. You HAVE to have these with you, or this method won’t work, because you need to reward as soon as the dog finishes pooping or peeing. It’s not going to work if the rewards are in the house.

Remember that you’re trying to change a very ingrained behavior. Some dogs like to feel certain things under their feet when they eliminate, like fabric, or newspaper. This is called a ‘substrate preference.’ What you’re trying to do is change this substrate preference, and to do that you have to make the treats SO wonderful that the dog will change this very well-entrenched behavior. Thus the chicken, cheese, steak.

I love clicker training, but this can be done without clickers. You just need a way to ‘mark’ the behavior you want to reinforce. Use the word ‘YESSSSS!!!!’ very enthusiastically – that works for some.

You’re going to need to GO OUTSIDE WITH your dog and the dog needs to be on a leash. Yes, even in winter. If you don’t reward IMMEDIATELY after the event (when dog immediately finishes pooping or peeing) and wait inside, the dog is going to be reinforced for coming inside, not for doing its business. So, leash up your dog. STAND IN ONE PLACE. Be boring. Bring a book or magazine for yourself.

Eventually, the dog will do what you’re waiting for. The NANOSECOND that the dog is finished, HAVE A PARTY – lots of loud, high-pitched praise, treats and running around. You want to make this memorable for your dog! You’ll find that once the first event is achieved, the others will come more quickly. Keep on treating (you don’t have to throw a party except for milestones – a milestone = if he only pooped outside but now peed, too, or something equivalent to that) until he’s good and used to peeing/pooping outside. Before you know it, you have a trained dog.

Regarding accidents in the house: NO SCOLDING. Just clean them up. If you scold you’ll get the dog to think it’s bad to pee or poop and he’ll do it in places you won’t see. Until you step in it. Invest in a big bottle of Nature’s Miracle or Simple Solution and use it liberally on accidents.

With young puppies, remember they have little control of the muscle that holds the bladder closed. This is something they grow into. Just as it’s not expected that a human baby is toilet trained at six months, don’t expect much from a puppy. Patience, patience, patience!!!! The nervous system in a puppy has to mature, and it won’t have much control over the sphincter (closing muscle) at the neck of the bladder until six or seven months. The same goes for the anal sphincter. Until control is achieved, both of these muscles operate on reflex: there are stretch receptors in the bladder wall. When the bladder is full, it sends impulses to the spinal cord and these, in turn, send signals to the sphincter to open and the dog pees.

In the stomach wall, there are also stretch receptors. So when the dog eats and the stomach is stretched, the impulses again go to the spinal cord, but this time the reflex, outgoing, nerve signals are sent to the anal sphincter, so the dog defecates. This operates in people, too – which is why some people rush to the ‘reading room’ after a meal – especially breakfast.
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Old 09-18-2009, 08:15 PM
 
4,248 posts, read 6,654,052 times
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Thanks very much Viralmd. It would be so much easier if I did not have two. I can't quite figure out how to do it. Let's say first thing in the a.m. They both go outside in their yard. It's hard not to reward both when one goes potty, so I am a bit stumped over that. When I praise one and give the one a treat, automatically the other wants the same so I give the other the same. I know the message isn't coming through to the dog who doesn't go but, like I said, it is hard. I could keep one in their room and take the other outside on a leash, but then the one left in the room will not be able to hold it and will go in the room. Aye, aye, aye. I wish I had thought this through more before getting two at the same time.
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh--Home of the 6 time Super Bowl Champions!
11,042 posts, read 7,882,858 times
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OK...Viralmd...I have a situation that maybe you can provide me with guidance. I have a 5 month old morkie. He is still having pee accidents in the house. So let me give you some details/background in the way my life is...
-I work 12 hr shifts...steady nights 3 nights/week. While I'm at work I have Watson in a fenced in area in my DR, with his open crate in the fenced in area. I do not want to lock him in his crate for that long of a period, thus the fenced in area. I also have some food and water in the area for him. There is also a pee pad there and he pees/poos on it!

-When I am home, I take him outside about every 2 hrs to pee/poo. But sometimes he will still have accidents in my house. I keep him out of the fenced in area when I am home. He is pretty much by my side when I'm home, but occasionally will run into another room and pee. By the time I run after him, he has already peed on my carpet. He doesn't poo inside except for on the pee pad at night in the fenced in area. Should I be placing pee pads in every room in my house? I have them in my bedroom because I am in there a lot when I am on my computer. He will use the pee pad in my bedroom! But then sometimes he runs out into the living room and pees before I catch up to him.

When do they finally start going to the door to let you know they need go outside?
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Old 09-19-2009, 06:08 AM
 
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Some dogs NEVER signal: my dog doesn't and neither does my sister's dog.

YOU have to be vigilant. If your dog runs off and goes on the carpet there are two problems: YOU are not restricting his access to the carpet (that's where the leash tied to your waistband comes in and so do baby gates) and you need to clean the carpet more thoroughly.

This isn't about the dog. This is about you teaching the dog what you want. THAT is why the treats for going outside MUST be fabulous. He needs to want them SO much he'll change his behavior.

But don't complain that he goes on the carpet: you LET him on the carpet in the first place. And he might NEVER signal that he needs to go!
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Old 09-19-2009, 06:36 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
7,707 posts, read 8,981,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viralmd View Post
Some dogs NEVER signal: my dog doesn't and neither does my sister's dog.

YOU have to be vigilant. If your dog runs off and goes on the carpet there are two problems: YOU are not restricting his access to the carpet (that's where the leash tied to your waistband comes in and so do baby gates) and you need to clean the carpet more thoroughly.

This isn't about the dog. This is about you teaching the dog what you want. THAT is why the treats for going outside MUST be fabulous. He needs to want them SO much he'll change his behavior.

But don't complain that he goes on the carpet: you LET him on the carpet in the first place. And he might NEVER signal that he needs to go!
i'm seeing this with dave ..... or NOT seeing it as the case may be...... but so far, just 2 accidents in the house and i TOTALLY blame myself for thursday night..... he was a little gassy right before we went to bed and i didn't follow up.......
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Old 09-19-2009, 07:42 AM
 
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Excellent advice from Viralmd. Your puppy is a lot less likely to piddle in the room where you are. Would invest in some baby gates to keep him out of other rooms or just close the doors. When mine were puppies, they didnt always signal - and still don't at times - get him on a schedule (as best you can) so you know about when he has to go and take him outside often (we have a fenced-in yard and kept them on a leash so they knew they were out there to 'go', they could play later, another time. Would def. not put pee pads in every room, IMO that's a step backwards, the goal is to get him housebroken, in fact I prob. wouldn't even use pee pads at all if I were home, in their minds it gives them permission to 'go' in the house which you want to avoid (if you work long hours, it's prob. unavoidable unless you get a petsitter to come in or have the ex-pen set up which is good too, so he's not stuck in a crate for a long time if he has an accident). HTH -

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasGirl@Heart View Post
OK...Viralmd...I have a situation that maybe you can provide me with guidance. I have a 5 month old morkie. He is still having pee accidents in the house. So let me give you some details/background in the way my life is...
-I work 12 hr shifts...steady nights 3 nights/week. While I'm at work I have Watson in a fenced in area in my DR, with his open crate in the fenced in area. I do not want to lock him in his crate for that long of a period, thus the fenced in area. I also have some food and water in the area for him. There is also a pee pad there and he pees/poos on it!

-When I am home, I take him outside about every 2 hrs to pee/poo. But sometimes he will still have accidents in my house. I keep him out of the fenced in area when I am home. He is pretty much by my side when I'm home, but occasionally will run into another room and pee. By the time I run after him, he has already peed on my carpet. He doesn't poo inside except for on the pee pad at night in the fenced in area. Should I be placing pee pads in every room in my house? I have them in my bedroom because I am in there a lot when I am on my computer. He will use the pee pad in my bedroom! But then sometimes he runs out into the living room and pees before I catch up to him.

When do they finally start going to the door to let you know they need go outside?
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Old 09-19-2009, 07:47 AM
 
3,727 posts, read 8,102,859 times
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Would prob. walk both then at the same time - the treat situation is hard though - if they're overly focusing on them and getting frustrated, maybe would just try verbal praise for a few days and see if that helps. We had 2 close in age (6 months apart) but never the exact same age but I know it can be done, it just requires a lot of diligence - and keep them off the rug and out of that room right now, we spent a lot of time in the kitchen (easy cleanup) where we had a small tv - it was a pain but they did get the idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by movin'on View Post
Thanks very much Viralmd. It would be so much easier if I did not have two. I can't quite figure out how to do it. Let's say first thing in the a.m. They both go outside in their yard. It's hard not to reward both when one goes potty, so I am a bit stumped over that. When I praise one and give the one a treat, automatically the other wants the same so I give the other the same. I know the message isn't coming through to the dog who doesn't go but, like I said, it is hard. I could keep one in their room and take the other outside on a leash, but then the one left in the room will not be able to hold it and will go in the room. Aye, aye, aye. I wish I had thought this through more before getting two at the same time.
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:11 AM
 
Location: NW. MO.
1,817 posts, read 3,762,231 times
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Have you crate trained them? That is first, then as others have said use child gates to restrict them when they are with you in the house. If you have to keep them in a linoleum area when you can't be right there. And then when they go out, make sure both go potty. You can buy a puppy pen and put it anywhere in the kitchen if you need to and for a while keep them corraled more often during the day and work on house training again and give them freedom back as they learn. You'll just have to start from square one.

I have Tzu's. One of them can't stand staying outside. I have put the water out to encourage them and to keep them out longer. The food is inside but they want to go outside more now that they must for the water dish.
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