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I think it is relevant because someone said "how would you like it if you were shocked every time you tried to talk?"
That is ascribing human logic and emotions to the dog
Exactly--and such seem a reach as far this topic is concerned. It is a philosophical question best addressed on a separate thread. How can one possibly resolve such a contention? Like all philosophical issues it can go on and on forever. It doesn't add clarity or information to the original point because it is unable to be factually or experentially argued. Thus, a good discussion peters out into a neverending subjective argument.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy
I have a dog that will yelp if the collar is on "vibrate" - I KNOW that does not hurt, not one bit.
Absolutely true. Dogs are capable of some pretty advanced problem solving. Some dogs learn to manipulate the handler by acting as though they are being waterboarded with the slightest training pressure.
It's like watching a world cup match when someone gets mildly bumped on the hip and acts as though he has a compound fracture as a result of willful assault.
If your resolve consistently fades with such a display, the dog will file that bit of information away. Like any training tool, there is a right way to use it and a lot of wrong ways.
Last edited by jimboburnsy; 10-01-2009 at 12:41 PM..
Exactly--and such seem a reach as far this topic is concerned. It is a philosophical question best addressed on a separate thread. How can one possibly resolve such a contention? Like all philosophical issues it can go on and on forever. It doesn't add clarity or information to the original point because it is unable to be factually or experentially argued. Thus, a good discussion peters out into a neverending subjective argument.
Tama, how you percieve the dog has a GREAT deal to do with how you would train and manage that dog and whether or not you would even consider to use this approach.
I would never put an electronic collar on a child because of both the humiliation and the concept of subjecting my child to pain to prevent an undesired behavior. With a dog I have no more trouble doing this than I have with having electric fence for horses [also intellegent animals] and cattle.
If you percieve the dog to be a little human than you could consider this approach reprehensible.
Actually, I said if you ascribe to the dog human emotions that you would find it reprehensible - not that if you find it reprehensible you ascribe to the dog human emotions.
Anyway, I am walking out the door as we speak to put on the bark collar. She has free access inside and outside with me in the house and has decided to go outside and bark for the sake of it.
I would never put an electronic collar on a child because of both the humiliation and the concept of subjecting my child to pain to prevent an undesired behavior. With a dog I have no more trouble doing this than I have with having electric fence for horses [also intellegent animals] and cattle.
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A child's pain is reprehensible but an animal's pain is ok? Isn't suffering suffering? Is the animal's suffering less or merely not to be regarded?
I would consider the shock collar to be advanced as a useful tool because the pain is not significant but merely attention-getting like the slap on a child's rear. But to view the pain as significant but unimportant is a whole other way of seeing things. That is a revelation.
A child's pain is reprehensible but an animal's pain is ok? Isn't suffering suffering? Is the animal's suffering less or merely not to be regarded?
I would consider the shock collar to be advanced as a useful tool because the pain is not significant but merely attention-getting like the slap on a child's rear. But to view the pain as significant but unimportant is a whole other way of seeing things. That is a revelation.
Where did anyone EVER say the little sting of a bark collar is "significant" and the cause of "suffering"?
I would never put an electronic collar on a child because of both the humiliation and the concept of subjecting my child to pain to prevent an undesired behavior. With a dog I have no more trouble doing this than I have with having electric fence for horses [also intellegent animals] and cattle.
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Granny This part of your post led me to that conclusion. Sorry if I misunderstood?
I just purchased a "static"collar.Pretty sure it is considered a shock collar.It was either try this or rehome my dog.He will bark if a leaf blows in the wind.If i get up he barks.Non stop.Middle of the night.Once he starts to bark my other dogs do too thinking theres something actually worth barking at.So far this collar is working.I tried in before i used it on him and its the same as a shock you get from doing laundry!It does not hurt at all.i bypassed the citronella because ive tried using asquirt bottle on him and it does not phase him one bit.I'd recommend this collar to people that have constant barkers.It drives you insane after awhile.
Granny This part of your post led me to that conclusion. Sorry if I misunderstood?
I repeat, where did I ever say the sting of the collar is significant and a source of suffering. It is a quick aversive - like getting stung by a bee, only less, and without the lingering pain.
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