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Old 10-30-2009, 07:31 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,398 posts, read 7,133,043 times
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Jupiter is about 10 weeks old now...we got him when he was just a little over 6 weeks. We've been constantly taking him out, and he's alerted us at the door 3 separate times that he has to go out.
However, often, (especially when its my mother that takes him out) he will go outside, go potty, then come back inside and potty again not 5 minutes later!

Ive begun threatening to turn this puppy into a bathroom rug! Thank God I have hardwood floors! He sleeps in my room on the floor at night, and will alert me in the morning that he has to go. Other than that, there's usually no warning.

He HATES his crate, despite frequent coaxing (I CRAWLED in it myself with fresh-cooked beef chunks and he STILL wont go in it!) and will howl for hours if put in there. Paper training doesnt work either, because both dogs LOVE shredding paper---no matter whats on it.
I cant just take all water away either, because I do have an adult dog's needs to consider as well. I cant let him outside with Jasper because he is still of a size where he can squeeze through the crack between the gate and the fence.
Is there such a thing as Huggies for Puppies?! Im sick of finding "blessings" and puddles!

Im also trying to get him to stay put when we ride in the car, because he wants to come over and crawl over me when Im driving, making it awkward to steer. "No" and a push repeatedly DOESNT work, he just keeps trying over and over again, and if Jasper is in the backseat they'll start playing around. That wont work either.

Im at a complete loss as to what to do and so bloody frustrated with this puppy!.
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:49 PM
 
11,684 posts, read 14,391,983 times
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A dog in your lap while driving or a dog horsing around in the car is a danger. He should be in a crate in the car whether he likes it or not. It's forhis safety and yours. Sometimes you just have to deal with the noise they make.

10 weeks is still really young, imo. I would give it some time. Praise when he does right. Do not punish for wrong - he's just a baby. If he's alerting you, he has the right idea. I would just go with it. And as much as he howls in the crate, it might be what you have to do. As long as he's not hurting himself, he will be ok.

Sounds to me like he knows he can put one over on you. Be the alpha and that will change.
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:54 PM
 
4,129 posts, read 13,277,522 times
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He's only 10 wks old, like human babies, puppies take months to housetrain. Please be more patient w/ him, you'll only make him a sneaky piddler if you expect too much of him. Praise works much better than punishment and yelling. Keep in mind, his bladder and bowel muscle control isn't what it will be in a few months, it takes time, you're expecting too much too soon.

As for crating him for hours, it's too much too soon, it's as simple as that. Would do it gradually, if he has accidents in it and is stuck w/ them (if you're gone), he's not gonna be happy there and that's a bad habit for him to get into.

About signaling, again he's very young, mine normally dont signal, it's not something I'd trust them w/ entirely, every few hrs we go out - take him out when he wakes up, after he eats, when he starts circling etc.

Re his moving all over the car when you drive, crate him in the back or buckle him in (get him a harness), it's far safer for him in the long run. Mine are adults and are still crated, they're used to it and are fine w/ it (well, arent overjoyed for the first few minutes but that quickly passes, we've driven 8 hrs w/ them many times on vacation (with several pit stops) and they're fine.

It does take time, just be patient (and positive)
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:01 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,398 posts, read 7,133,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinx View Post
A dog in your lap while driving or a dog horsing around in the car is a danger. He should be in a crate in the car whether he likes it or not. It's forhis safety and yours. Sometimes you just have to deal with the noise they make.

10 weeks is still really young, imo. I would give it some time. Praise when he does right. Do not punish for wrong - he's just a baby. If he's alerting you, he has the right idea. I would just go with it. And as much as he howls in the crate, it might be what you have to do. As long as he's not hurting himself, he will be ok.

Sounds to me like he knows he can put one over on you. Be the alpha and that will change.
I do not have a crate small enough to fit in the front seat of my car, nor do I have the money to buy one his size when he is simply going to out-grow it in a short time anyway (He's already 17 lbs, and even smaller crates are about $40). My crate complaint was for the one that is in the house (He's using my older dogs wire crate for when we take him to NC in my dad's truck. I drive a smaller model Buick...there's no way ONE crate will fit, much less two.)
Next time Im going to simply rig up something in the front seat where he cant go anywhere.
He has GOT to learn to stay still in the car at an early age, because when he gets bigger its going to get ALOT more complicated due to size. I will travel with both my dogs, and he WILL learn to behave or he'll have a PO'd Mom.
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:11 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,398 posts, read 7,133,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeycrisp View Post
He's only 10 wks old, like human babies, puppies take months to housetrain. Please be more patient w/ him, you'll only make him a sneaky piddler if you expect too much of him. Praise works much better than punishment and yelling. Keep in mind, his bladder and bowel muscle control isn't what it will be in a few months, it takes time, you're expecting too much too soon.

As for crating him for hours, it's too much too soon, it's as simple as that. Would do it gradually, if he has accidents in it and is stuck w/ them (if you're gone), he's not gonna be happy there and that's a bad habit for him to get into.

About signaling, again he's very young, mine normally dont signal, it's not something I'd trust them w/ entirely, every few hrs we go out - take him out when he wakes up, after he eats, when he starts circling etc.

Re his moving all over the car when you drive, crate him in the back or buckle him in (get him a harness), it's far safer for him in the long run. Mine are adults and are still crated, they're used to it and are fine w/ it (well, arent overjoyed for the first few minutes but that quickly passes, we've driven 8 hrs w/ them many times on vacation (with several pit stops) and they're fine.

It does take time, just be patient (and positive)
Thank you.
He isnt punished when he goes in the house...though I do admit to yelling a few times to startle him out of it when he'd been squatting over my nice rug.
When he's in the crate, he doesnt "go", and isnt left in it for too terribly long (2 hours at most when I go to classes twice a week...he cant be left free in the house). When I get home, he's taken out immediately before I even drop my books.
My other dog is 80lbs....lol when Jupiter becomes and adult (Expected to be 80lbs+ ) there's no way crates will fit in my car. Lol
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Tx
1,203 posts, read 3,860,849 times
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First off, dogs should not ride in the front seat of a car EVER. If you get in an accident with the dogs in the car the airbag (if you have a passenger air bag) can do severe damage to the dog, or he could go through the window, or be thrown to the floor, heaven forbid. Get him a harness and an attachment for the seat belt, and belt him in. If they play in the back seat they play, as long as both dogs are restrained they should be ok.

Regarding the crate issue, I had the same problem with my dog when he was a pup. I got him at 7 weeks old and didn't have enough time to get him use to his crate before I had to go to work the next day. He howled, went potty in his crate, and hated being in there for a long, long time. Luckily my job allowed me to go home on my break to let him out for a bit so that did help. The only thing I can suggest is maybe since he is smaller right now his crate feels to big for him and he's scared. Try sectioning off the crate so he has a smaller space to be in, he should only have enough room to stand up, turn around, and lay down....anymore room is too much for his size and could be causing the howling problem.....also maybe putting a blanket over the top so it feels like a cave to him. Put him in the crate when your home for short periods of time, start with a few minutes and build up from there. Once he gets use to it, it will feel like his home.

If he goes potty in the house in front of you take him outside, even if you have just come back in from outside. He probably won't potty again outside, but it's a way to get him to know that's where he should be going instead of going inside. Walk around with him for a few minutes to see if anything happens and go back in. If he pottys again, go right back outside. He should always have access to water, so even moving it somewhere only your other dog can get to it wouldn't be good, but possibly removing it an hour before bed could be helpful.

I learned a lot from my first dog and luckily was blessed with my second to not have as many problems. Another factor could be the fact that he is so young, he probably misses his mom. Just have patience and he will learn Good luck!
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Mostly in my head
19,817 posts, read 55,838,417 times
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The dog who is loose in the car can become a flying missile aimed at the driver's neck/head when an accident happens. For the dog's sake, get him a vest that attaches to the seat belt and put him in the back seat.
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:53 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 92,088,204 times
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There's a reason he's going again when he comes inside---especially when your mother takes him out. What are you and your mother doing differently?

At this young age when you are potty training, you should have a treat with you to give outside as soon as he does his business outside. You should give lots of excited praise and a treat. You need to do this every single time when he goes outside and the praise and treat have to be given to him outside.

Is your mother praising him when he goes outside? Or is she in a hurry and dragging him back in? Or is she giving treats inside the house instead of outside? Is your mother not giving him enough time to finish when he's outside?

MOST IMPORTANTLY: You need to stop relying on the puppy to let you know when he needs to go outside. You need to put him on a schedule and stick to the schedule. When he's older, he'll let you know when he needs to go outside, but you will always need to stick to a certain schedule. Puppies need to go outside as soon as they wake up, as soon as they are done eating, immediately after playing because it gets their bladder going, etc.

You need to schedule the bowel movements. A dog will have as many bowel movements as it has meals per day. The bowel movements come after eating so you must take the dog out immediately after a meal. And you need to stay outside until the dog has a bowel movement---followed by the excited happy praise and treat given while outside.

I think you'll find that your puppy will improve quickly if you get on a good schedule, stick with it, and give it lots and lots of praise immediately after peeing or having a bowel movement while you are still outside.
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Old 10-31-2009, 05:20 AM
 
7,079 posts, read 34,479,210 times
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Below is my housetraining post. You and everyone else in the house need to follow it TO THE LETTER and you'll have a trained dog. Not immediately, but eventually.

And you can't just put a dog in a crate and call it crate training. Crate training is a process. You do it slowly over time, starting by feeding in the crate. See this website: Crate Training | The Humane Society of the United States (http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/our_pets_for_life_program/dog_behavior_tip_sheets/crate_training.html - broken link)
It's a great source on how to crate train your pup.

And remember HE'S A PUPPY! Until he's a month or so older he's got what doctors call an 'automatic bladder' (and bowel) operating on REFLEX - he has NO control! If you get upset when he has an accident on the carpet, DON'T LET HIM GO THERE. It's YOUR fault, not his!

And I agree, a dog, ANY dog, should NEVER be in the front seat of a car. The airbag can kill a dog (even a larger one). My dogs travel in carriers in the BACK seat with the seat belt through the carrier handles to keep them from moving around.

Here's the housetraining post:

Housetraining your dog (puppy or adult!)

The first thing you need to do is to remember that you’re trying to reinforce a new behavior. That means that the rewards for this behavior must be WONDERFUL. NOT crap from the store. Wonderful treats are poached chicken breast/turkey breast, cheese and steak. And you don’t have to use big pieces. Tiny pieces (about 3mm cubes) are just fine! I poach a whole turkey breast every few weeks, cut it into hunks when it’s cool enough to handle, wrap them well and store them in the freezer. When I need some, I’ll thaw a hunk overnight and cut off pieces and dice finely, storing them in a plastic bag in the fridge. One hunk will last about five days. Cheese is also popular, so variety is fine.

I carry these plastic bags in my jacket pockets in the winter and in a fanny pack in warmer weather. You HAVE to have these with you, or this method won’t work, because you need to reward as soon as the dog finishes pooping or peeing. It’s not going to work if the rewards are in the house.

Remember that you’re trying to change a very ingrained behavior. Some dogs like to feel certain things under their feet when they eliminate, like fabric, or newspaper. This is called a ‘substrate preference.’ What you’re trying to do is change this substrate preference, and to do that you have to make the treats SO wonderful that the dog will change this very well-entrenched behavior. Thus the chicken, cheese, steak.

I love clicker training, but this can be done without clickers. You just need a way to ‘mark’ the behavior you want to reinforce. Use the word ‘YESSSSS!!!!’ very enthusiastically – that works for some.

You’re going to need to GO OUTSIDE WITH your dog and the dog needs to be on a leash. Yes, even in winter. If you don’t reward IMMEDIATELY after the event (when dog immediately finishes pooping or peeing) and wait inside, the dog is going to be reinforced for coming inside, not for doing its business. So, leash up your dog. STAND IN ONE PLACE. Be boring. Bring a book or magazine for yourself.

Eventually, the dog will do what you’re waiting for. The NANOSECOND that the dog is finished, HAVE A PARTY – lots of loud, high-pitched praise, treats and running around. You want to make this memorable for your dog! You’ll find that once the first event is achieved, the others will come more quickly. Keep on treating (you don’t have to throw a party except for milestones – a milestone = if he only pooped outside but now peed, too, or something equivalent to that) until he’s good and used to peeing/pooping outside. Before you know it, you have a trained dog.

Regarding accidents in the house: NO SCOLDING. Just clean them up. If you scold you’ll get the dog to think it’s bad to pee or poop and he’ll do it in places you won’t see. Until you step in it. Invest in a big bottle of Nature’s Miracle or Simple Solution and use it liberally on accidents.

With young puppies, remember they have little control of the muscle that holds the bladder closed. This is something they grow into. Just as it’s not expected that a human baby is toilet trained at six months, don’t expect much from a puppy. Patience, patience, patience!!!! The nervous system in a puppy has to mature, and it won’t have much control over the sphincter (closing muscle) at the neck of the bladder until six or seven months. The same goes for the anal sphincter. Until control is achieved, both of these muscles operate on reflex: there are stretch receptors in the bladder wall. When the bladder is full, it sends impulses to the spinal cord and these, in turn, send signals to the sphincter to open and the dog pees.

In the stomach wall, there are also stretch receptors. So when the dog eats and the stomach is stretched, the impulses again go to the spinal cord, but this time the reflex, outgoing, nerve signals are sent to the anal sphincter, so the dog defecates. This operates in people, too – which is why some people rush to the ‘reading room’ after a meal – especially breakfast.

Last edited by Viralmd; 10-31-2009 at 06:36 AM..
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Old 10-31-2009, 05:54 AM
 
Location: California
10,091 posts, read 36,792,731 times
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Can't put it much better than ViralMD! He's 10 weeks old! A baby! Most breeders don't even let their pups go until 12 weeks. He has no control over his bladder at this point. Think a few month old baby. Would you expect it to be potty trained and tell you when he needs the toilet?
Follow Virals instructions, add lots of patience and you'll do great!
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