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Old 11-27-2009, 03:34 PM
 
Location: San Diego
5,027 posts, read 12,992,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjohnson185 View Post
If we do walk him during the day, we pick him up and carry him when we are within 10 ft. of a child.
Big mistake. You're teaching him that children are to be feared by picking him up, and if you happen to not pick him up and he comes across a child, he will most likely become aggressive.

I would find a behaviorist NOT a trainer to help your dog with these issues before they get worse. Good luck, I'm sure it's a stressful situation for you both.
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Old 11-27-2009, 03:57 PM
 
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Even with training, you can't be 100% certain the dog won't regress some day down the road.

When I was a kid, my family had a dog, although perfectly trained and obedient, suddenly chased a neighbor's kid and bit him on the butt. The kid wasn't hurt, the bite wasn't hard enough to break through the kid's denim jeans.

But we had the dog euthanized. We felt it was the responsible thing to do as pet owners. No matter how good the training, there was just no way to know if he would become aggressive again. To us, safety--for our family and the public--had to come before our own affection for the animal.

I wish I could say retraining the dog would help. It might seem to. But you will never know if something will some day trigger your dog to attack. If that happens, it really won't matter that the dog was safe around people for years. I especially cannot imagine keeping the dog in the home with kids present.

Last edited by kodaka; 11-27-2009 at 04:21 PM..
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Old 11-27-2009, 04:07 PM
 
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I don't know the whole story of course, but at a glance that seems a bit harsh Kodaka. Dogs have a chase instinct and a bite that dosent even break cloth sounds more like chase and play. My dads golden would romp around with us as kids and give us a little playful biting and mouthing, never breaking skin or tearing cloth, it was all in fun. I guess at the end of the day though, you've gotta make the call and do what you feel is best.
To the OP, I wish you luck. Sounds possibly medical after you described the other symtoms, let us know how it works out, I hope you get a happy ending.
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:27 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
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Would a muzzle on walks not solve the issue? I agree with other posters as to putting him in a crate when company is over.
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:50 PM
 
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Quote:
I don't know the whole story of course, but at a glance that seems a bit harsh Kodaka. Dogs have a chase instinct and a bite that dosent even break cloth sounds more like chase and play. My dads golden would romp around with us as kids and give us a little playful biting and mouthing, never breaking skin or tearing cloth, it was all in fun. I guess at the end of the day though, you've gotta make the call and do what you feel is best.
My family have been dog owners our whole lives. We know the difference between play and aggression. The dog was inside, someone opened the front door, the dog saw the neighbor kid in the yard and ran out after it. Four people tried to catch the dog or at least get between him and the kid and we couldn't. We got the dog at a shelter and we have no idea what kind of life it had before it came to us. This was twenty five years ago, long before shelters had 'canine-alities' or other in-depth assessments.

The kid wasn't bleeding but the bite did hurt and he was certainly terrified. It was gut wrenching enough to know that our dog had hurt one child, we couldn't imagine just waiting to see if he would do it again.

Moral responsibility aside, the legal obligations 25 years ago were certainly less strict than they are now. As someone else already mentioned, these owners are lucky that they haven't been reported yet. The dog doesn't have to break skin to be classified as a dangerous animal.
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:40 AM
 
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I just wanted to give everyone an update on our schnauzer that attacks children. We decided to find another home for him for his own safety. Our county has strict rules about biting dogs and with one reported incident, he could be put down by the county. Since he is the perfect dog besides the child attack issue, we decided to do what is best for him and find a home where he will never interact with a child ever again.

I had tons of people who actually wanted him..he is gorgeous and looks like a show dog with his phantom markings and is absolutely the best house dog and super sweet. I was very very strict with my requirements.

In the end a dentist and his wife met my requirements the best. They live deep in the mountains and have no young children in the family or around their house. They promise to never let him interact with a child again. I've gotten updates from time to time and they absolutely love him to death. They say he appears super happy and their other dog (a shelty) loves him too. It sounds like now he will have a long happy life without fear of biting a child and being put down.
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:34 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
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I love happy endings
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Old 02-18-2010, 03:56 PM
 
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So glad you were able to find a good home for him!
I had to put down an adopted Springer who attacked me in the same way the OP described. Vet said it was a neurological thing ("rage syndrome") and there was no other choice, in fact, I think I got to adopt him because his first home, who loved him dearly, wanted to believe he'd be OK in my home. I'm so glad the OP didn't have to go to that length and stood by the little critter to a happy life.
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:08 AM
 
Location: Tampa, Fl
4,090 posts, read 4,392,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
I am sorry. I would put this dog to sleep. It is not worth the risk.
Worst. Advice. Ever.


You don't use euthanization as a means for training, nor do you euthanize before attempting training. Please, for us real animal lovers, stay away from animals.
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:02 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
16,488 posts, read 33,459,114 times
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I'm glad that there's a happy ending to this situation. My first thoughts were that miniature schnauzers tend to be very protective of their people and property. In fact, all terriers seem territorial in that way. At least in my experience of having... eight terriers. I had a mini schnauzer growing up and the rest were mixes. Then there's the small dog syndrome too. My childhood dog, never liked outsiders in our house, although we had two friends that she took to immediately. She only nipped once, a great-uncle from out of town that came for dinner. We gave him a bowl full of liver treats for him to bribe her affections with. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough as... as soon as the bowl was empty, she nipped him. I suppose another problem was that he was giving her a treat every time she growled at him!! lol. Fortunately for us, we didn't have many guests over ever and we lived in the suburbs and without other children in the adjacent houses. So in the right living situation, almost any dog with behavioural issues can be fine.

I would say that my old pug dog and my current lab-hound mix is 100% friendly to everyone, including all other dogs. My other lab mix was abused as a puppy, so he's shy and suspicious of strangers. Had he not been abused, I think that he'd be as friendly as my other lab mix.

I also think that the O.P.'s schnauzer should have been walked outside the yard with a muzzle. And additionally it's a great visual aid to warn strangers to be careful when approaching the dog. Too many naive and clueless people want to bend down and pet every cute dog they see, and without asking the owner if it's alright to do so.

I also think that the O.P.'s schnauzer needed more physical exercise every day. Having the dog run around the yard chasing a ball is good. And in this case, perhaps agility training would have been a solution both for the exercise and giving the schnauzer an alternative "job" to do instead of protecting the owners.

Before petting a strange dog, I believe that it's best to slowly offer a closed fist for the dog to sniff first. Maybe even holding a treat. But based on the dog's reaction would determine if I were to go ahead and try to pet it. I also never look directly in a strange dog's eyes. Sometimes, I will pretend that the dog is invisible until I get friendly signals from it. And sometimes, I can tell that the dog is just not into meeting me, so I move on. These days, at the pet store, strange dogs always love to sniff my pants and shoes because of all my dogs at home. I'm a walking doggie billboard!

Lastly, I agree that it was a mistake to pick up the dog in advance of meeting approaching children. I've heard that the dog feels even more empowered to protect his owner when held close to their body. Plus now the dog's eyes are at an even higher height level, and so feels higher in rank and more powerful. In raising the dog up, now the schnauzer's eyes are at the same level or higher than the child's.

Otherwise, should the O.P. get another dog, she needs to realize that once she has her own children, anytime her children and their dog interacts, she needs to be monitoring the situation closely. Not in a paranoid fashion, but just making sure that her young kids aren't doing anything to provoke the dog.

I will always own some sort of smallish terrier mutt. I just love their personalities, but I also have a private yard for them to romp around it and I don't have guests over very often... and babies and kids will never be invited or welcomed. I don't even have treat-or-treaters visiting me on Halloween due to the way my house is placed on the street. And that's a perfect situation for me and my dogs.
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