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Old 01-06-2010, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 34,417,691 times
Reputation: 7084

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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
As the previous poster stated, they are endangered. That is simply a fact. No matter what your justification for killing a cougar, it is an endangered species.
I live in Florida and guess what? I would gladly welcome a 200 lb. kitty to the ten-foot alligators that we have around here. In fact, here in FL., the understanding is that you live here at your own risk. Stay away from areas where there are gators and don't leave your children or your dogs unattended. Why was a kid outside, by himself, collecting firewood at dusk anyway?!
There are some of us who respect wildlife (Jimbo, you're a hunter; I already knew how you would react before I even read your post) and live with it fully knowledgeable of the risks. And we don't cry and whine when the pendulum doesn't swing in our favor.
I never thought that I would hear such pissin' and moanin' from a bunch of guys.
This event took place about 120 miles from Vancouver and about 60 miles (as the crow flies) from the Washington State border. There is no way that the cat in question was an endangered sub-species of cougar so there doesn't seem to be much point pursuing that angle any further.

Here's a link to a slightly more informative article. Pet retriever defends boy, 11, against cougar attack - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/golden-retriever-fends-off-cougar-to-save-11-year-old-boy/article1417487/ - broken link)

It seems that a RCMP deputy just so happened to be less than 1 minute from the site of the attack and when he shot the cougar it was clearly in the process of killing the dog.

Starla, I respect wildlife in ways that you probably don't understand but I value my dog, my family and my own ability to continue to draw breath more than I appreciate a beautiful creature like a cougar. If you somehow found yourself in a situation like the one in the article, do you really believe you would sacrifice your dog to let the cougar live?

Incidentally, you're right: I would prefer a 200 lb. kitty to a 500 lb. lizard, but I wouldn't necessarily feel like I had won anything if I got my first choice between the two. If a gator had a grip on one of your dogs or a family member would you really be able to say "Oh well, that's just natural"??? I doubt it. It wouldn't be natural if you were.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:26 AM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,229,000 times
Reputation: 12766
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
As the previous poster stated, they are endangered. That is simply a fact. No matter what your justification for killing a cougar, it is an endangered species.
I live in Florida and guess what? I would gladly welcome a 200 lb. kitty to the ten-foot alligators that we have around here. In fact, here in FL., the understanding is that you live here at your own risk. Stay away from areas where there are gators and don't leave your children or your dogs unattended. Why was a kid outside, by himself, collecting firewood at dusk anyway?!
There are some of us who respect wildlife (Jimbo, you're a hunter; I already knew how you would react before I even read your post) and live with it fully knowledgeable of the risks. And we don't cry and whine when the pendulum doesn't swing in our favor.
I never thought that I would hear such pissin' and moanin' from a bunch of guys.
StaraJane, just because people think the right thing was done by destroying this cougar that only failed to attack the boy because the dog intervened, it does not mean they fail to respect wildlife. You really need to get a grasp on reality here because your arguement are based entirely upon emotion and not on logic or reason. You are doing the exact pissing and moaning that you project upon those with opposing views.

Why don't you have this discussion with your local game & wildlife agent and see how he or she responds? Or, if they do not agree with you would you also accuse them of having no respect for wildlife?

Out of curiosity, are you aware of the money and political reasons behind placing animals on the "endangered" list and keeping them there long after their numbers recover aren't you? Trust me when I say that if Cougars were seriously "endangered" in British Columbia they would not have any legal hunting season for the big cat.

Fact is there is also a limited hunting season on alligator in Florida and it was once also on the endangered animal list. Wasn't most of Florida originally swamp or pine forest? Arent you living where animal once roamed freely? So your point is what exactly? Hypocrisy?

Back to the dog "Angel". Good dog, hope it fully recovers and suffers no long term physical effects. I am glad that when the choice was made between the predator and the companion animal that it was the predator that was destroyed. And, that does not mean I fail to respect wildlife!
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:36 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,355 posts, read 16,848,315 times
Reputation: 11463
this story made our local newscast here this morning..... angel looks pretty beat up, but by all accounts, will be just fine......
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:40 AM
 
Location: San Diego
35,217 posts, read 32,187,063 times
Reputation: 19762
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
And yet, they are listed as endangered:

North Carolina Endangered and Threatened Species (http://www.fws.gov/nc-es/mammal/cougar.html - broken link)
Northeast Region, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service

They are so endangered they allow hunting for them I can apply for a Cougar permit right now in CO if I wanted to.

Mountain Lion Hunting Guides and Outfitters – Trips and Guided Hunts

There are 32 sub-species, some are endangered but in many areas (like in many parts of Canada) they are very abundant.

Here in California
Commonly Asked Questions about Mountain Lions

I am a hunter, and though I can't hunt the big cats here in CA I'm out among them all the time. People who don't respect them sometimes end up as food. The way I look at it is if they leave me alone I'll leave them alone. There are enough Deer out here for all of us .

There are over 50,000 in the US and even more in S America.
sub-species - North America
P.c.cougar - N.E US, S.E Canada
P.c.concolor - Guyana
P.c.coryi - Florida
P.c.costaricensis - Central America
P.c.hippolestes - Wyoming, Idaho
P.c.kaibabensis - Arizona
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:50 AM
 
Location: San Diego
35,217 posts, read 32,187,063 times
Reputation: 19762
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
Did you not read the links that I posted? Cougars are endangered animals. If you are going to assert that they are not, then you need to back it up with some king of evidence.
And BTW, before the area was "someone's backyard," it was a cougar's territory. What do you expect when you choose to live in an area with wild animals?
You obviously have no respect for wild animals and seem to fear and hate them. If you are so afraid of them, I suggest that you move to a location where you won't encounter them, although I imagine that someone such as yourself probably enjoys killing them.
There are creatures other than humans in the world, and they deserve to live just as much as we do. I only hope that, in the future, human beings will look for solutions in which neither a little boy nor a wild animal need to be eliminated.
Like................OMG

Cougar (Mountain Lion) Hunting, Vancouver Island, British Columbia (BC), Canada, Hunting Guides & Outfitters, North Island Guide Outfitters

There are so many they allow hunters to take two.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:54 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,902,040 times
Reputation: 6453
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Here's a more detailed news article about the attack. And no, in this case, the cougar could not have been saved. When the constable arrived at the house, the dog and cougar were under the porch. And the cougar died with the dog's head in its mouth.

I also feel that even if the cougar had been chased off the property, probably the authorities would have wanted to hunt down this animal since it no longer had any fear of humans and was willing to attack the boy. And that's the general rule of thumb around the world with predatory animals. Once the animal is known for stalking and attacking humans, they are usually killed.

Hero dog saves boy, 11, from cougar attack - Heroes and angels

I agree with you 100% this animal clearly had no fear of humans and would of attacked this boy, what if this boy were you SON!
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
3,730 posts, read 5,282,615 times
Reputation: 4193
Angel was a very lucky dog. The cougar was a sub adult female under 2 years old, thin and perhaps starving, only slightly larger than the dog. Had the cougar been a healthy adult Angel would have been killed in a very short time. An adult tom cougar weighs between 120-180 pounds, with an occasional huge one going 200, and can kill a bull elk. Females are 2/3 the size of males. Cougars are extremely strong, lightning fast, and have deadly weapons. Almost surely the cat was after the dog, not the boy. Cougars (and leopards) are fond of dog meat, and will prey on them. They have easily killed and eaten large poweful dogs considered formidable, such as Rotties, German shepherds, Dobies, pit bulls, etc. One on one, no dog would have a chance against a fully grown tom cougar. Dogs have many times protected their masters from predators, often at the cost of their own lives, because a predator will ignore the human and focus on the greater immediate threat of the dog. Any predator that attacks humans or livestock must be eliminated, there is no other option. Those earlier posters that protested the killing of the cougar either have no knowledge or experience with wildlife, or else have been badly misinformed. Without commenting on Canadian firearms policy and laws, any home in a semi remote area such as the one under discussion should have been armed. Someone in the household should have shot the cougar at once, the services of a constable should not have been required.
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Old 02-08-2010, 05:00 PM
 
511 posts, read 1,984,990 times
Reputation: 743
Cougars out here in WY are not endangered by any means. There is a hunting season for them. When they come into town, if G&F can get a good shot at them they are killed. They are beautiful, but deadly. Of course you run the risk of encountering them if you live where they thrive, but that dosen't mean you can't take measures to keep your family and pets safe. And don't mistake my view for the "shoot all cougars/wolves/bears/coyoties on sight" view... I love to see these creatures out in the wild and I am happy that I live in a place where I can see them... but I'm not going to let them prey on my child/pet.
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:22 AM
 
1 posts, read 1,256 times
Reputation: 10
Starlajane> If you actually read your links they refer to the Eastern Cougar not Western, and the studies were done from US Organizations years ago, the attack took place in Western Canada !!!
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