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Old 03-19-2010, 08:23 PM
 
Location: San Diego
5,027 posts, read 13,406,704 times
Reputation: 4848

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernBelleInUtah View Post
All the suggestions have given me an idea: suppose he is attached to you b/c you treat him kindly and he freaks out when you leave b/c he is afraid you aren't coming back? Or the first owner will come back for him? Maybe it is an extreme form of seperation anxiety? Poor W and poor you - you have my sympathy but I can't really help much.
His owner showed up at the beach yesterday, to see him. W almost died from fear and wouldn't leave my side. I don't abuse him, as the previous posters seem to think I do. He might be afraid of being abandoned, which is why I take him (and PC) with me when I leave 75% of the time. But, some places, I just can't take them and it's unfair to leave them in the car. I even bought a dog jogging stroller, which should be here any day, so that W can come with me when I go rollerblading. He's starting puppy school the week after his neuter (which is next week) and we will be getting in touch with the behaviorist Dashdog posted in the other thread as well.

I also think he's like this because of his first 12 weeks. He was bred by a byb and lived in a makeshift accommodation in the backyard. All his siblings were "purchased" at 6-8 weeks and W was left all alone, in a box, in a backyard because no one wanted a blue-eyed Boston. Then, this woman buys him, keeps him for a few weeks, and hands him off to her son, who then drives W to San Diego. That's a lot going on for such a young age. He never got to bond with anyone and since the day I met him, he has bonded more strongly to me than even his owner at the time. This is why I'm against backyard breeding. They just care about profit, and not about where the pups end up or that they are raised in a home, with humans around. So much different than PC's breeder.

 
Old 03-19-2010, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Tx
1,203 posts, read 3,870,775 times
Reputation: 631
Mak...from what you said in just the few previous responses of the fact that hes afraid to be left alone I would try the all wire crate instead of the plastic one you have for him now. Perhaps if hes in the same room as PC and can see him every where he goes he won't be SO afraid. In the plastic crate he has limited visibility, so if PC moves to a spot where W can't see him perhaps if he was in a wire crate it would ease his pain. Also have you tried crating him while in the room and giving treats, maybe if trying that and he can see you in the room it would be easier for him when you left?

I'm just trying to come up with some stuff that might help a little. I know I was at my witts end with Buster when I first got him and he came to me at 8 weeks and I'm his only owner. For him I just think he got the raw end of the stick on his mixes (pug/schnauzer) and I think he got the anxiety from both lol

Until you can get him into a training class try the wire crate if you can get one. I got one for Bella off of craigslist after she chewed her second hole in my couch.

I hope this helps. I know how much you love PC and can see you're really trying with W. I can also understand how it can unravel someones nerves when you're at your witts end on what to do to help the dog and yourself.
 
Old 03-19-2010, 08:44 PM
 
4,541 posts, read 13,120,406 times
Reputation: 2285
Default Your dog has Separation Anxiety...

MAK,

I'm sure you realize that what you're describing is serious separation anxiety. My current dog, a labrador also was not crate trainable and had serious separation anxiety when I adopted him. He destroyed crates and / or escaped them and destroyed them. He completely melted down in a crate, salivating and sweating... it was terrible. If I left him inside the house for even a short time, he would scratch at the door and tear up the moulding trying to get out.

Just so you know that I really know what you're talking about, here's a link to the thread that I started when I first got my lab.

Crate training...separation anxiety..

In my dogs case, I finally found that putting him in an outdoor kennel when I left kept him from destroying anything. He didn't try to escape. The outdoors also seems to placate him. From reading over your posts, it seems that you're in an apartment so an outdoor kennel may not work out for you.

I've had my dog for over a year now. These days, my dog has settled down to the point that I've actually considered leaving him in the house alone when I'm gone. I would do it, except that he knows how to open doors and I'm afraid I will come home to an front door standing open. At least, you don't have to worry about that!

I may have missed it if someone else recommended it, but it sounds as though a good short term solution for this dog would be putting him in doggie daycare when you're gone.

There's a booklet by Patricia McConnell called "I'll be home Soon"... that I would recommend that you read.
It explains the symptoms of separation anxiety and it gives step by step solutions to the problem....

I've just scanned this thread. I hope that I've not duplicated other posters with my suggestions but if I have consider it confirmation.

Separation anxiety is very common with rescue dogs... I believe it is an issue that can be solved.

Since you've already lost your deposit,... maybe now you might as well see what you can do to help this dog.... ???

Last edited by World Citizen; 03-19-2010 at 09:31 PM..
 
Old 03-19-2010, 09:15 PM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,270,056 times
Reputation: 4238
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAK802 View Post
If you're insinuating that we are abusing him, you're way out of line. We have done much more than most people would have even though to do with this dog. While he was at his previous home, we don't hit him, yell at him, or treat him any differently than PC. So please stop drawing up an image of me as some animal abuser because it is simply not true!
Dear MAK, nothing could be further from the truth. I simply don't know how you could've gotten that I was insinuating you abuse Winston from my post.

I repeated what ZSP said because that is the root of the problem, imo. Clearly, you didn't start this problem. No one is drawing up any kind of image of you other than someone who is at their wits end. It is not uncommon. I've been in your situation, as I've said.

I, as many, have suggested training with a professional....there's no point in continuously repeating what others have said. My writing that the damage to the bathroom was no big deal is just that --- frustrating I know, but it's nothing that can't be fixed relatively easily. Again, I've been there and I know.

I do wish you luck, but mostly I hope for a compatible home for Winston.
 
Old 03-19-2010, 09:44 PM
 
4,130 posts, read 13,301,284 times
Reputation: 3773
I'm sorry you're going thru what you're going thru and I second the opinions about using a wire crate, it gives them better ventilation and they can see more than in a plastic crate and feel more like a part of the room.

Another thought, is there a chance he's hearing impaired. Deafness is not uncommon in the breed, esp. in blue-eyed bt's. It's possible he's hard of hearing and that may account for some of the separation anxiety. Probably even leaving music or the tv on when you leave may not make a difference if that's the case (alth. you'd prob. want to leave it on for your other guy).

Thx for being there for him and I hope your dh isn't too upset about the damage, I hope everything works out, best of luck to all.
 
Old 03-19-2010, 09:56 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
556 posts, read 1,833,088 times
Reputation: 845
Mak - based on the title of your post, to me, I thought you were ready to surrender him - "...before the Boston has to go".....so I too was hoping you would contact ZSP about considering working with BT rescue to find him a more suitable home, where someone is home all the time and is willing to have a dog be their constant shadow.

If Winston has a good case of separation anxiety - the things you are doing when you leave him, are obviously not working, and could be making him worse, with him being so young....

Like World Citizen suggested - I too was going to suggest an outdoor run with roof, but saw you live in an apartment, and likely don't have any private yard to consider doing this.....

The high pitched, panic stricken cries he is doing while crated are not normal cries of "hey - did you leave me by myself?" -or- "hey - are you out there" - or - "hey - come get me out because I know you are home"....those panic stricken cries are a dog who is garnering every ounce of his adrenaline to attack his 'box', so he can get out, only to escape the crate and find he's still in a 'box' - so he goes to work on that...he sounds like he is having a full blown panic attack, to include being totally freaked out by confined spaces.

Who knows if that is from his prior months with someone else, or if that is just 'who' he is and how he will be many months and years down the road.

If your life is one that keeps you out of the house on/off every day - then you might not be the best home for Winston - even if you rescued him with that intent....he might need a very active, newly retired lady who walks each morning and evening and would love a walking buddy - and the rest of the time, he can be her lovebug on the sofa.....doesn't mean you are a bad person.....just means Winston needs something better suited to who he is and how he is wired.

It's not easy to look at ourselves in the mirror and admit that we're not the right home for a dog we invested much effort in securing safety for....but you got him out of a bad place.....and as I see it - his future has two paths - he is humanely euthanized because he can't feel safe when left alone; or a home/owner is found that can give him the complete supervision he needs to feel safe...

Good luck - dogs with separation anxiety are a challenge to live with - no matter their size.
 
Old 03-19-2010, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Manhattan, Ks
1,280 posts, read 6,144,638 times
Reputation: 1805
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasape View Post
If you need an emergency sedative, maybe Benadril will work? Or Tylenol sleeping pills, they're the same thing only minus the antihistamine.
If Benadryl works on him they might be worth trying. I don't know what's in the Tylenol sleeping pills, but of course anything with Tylenol or Advil is a big no-no for dogs and cats.

In my personal opinion, your pup could probably benefit from some pharmacological intervention. He needs to learn that the crate is a safe place and that you will come back after you go away, but it sounds like he's in such a state of distress that he's unable to learn anything. Each incident is just going to build on the last, I'm afraid. My heart goes out to you. Severe separation anxiety is tough to deal with. Another poster suggested doggy day care, would that be a possibility for you? What about a veterinary behaviorist? They can be pricey, I know.
 
Old 03-19-2010, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Lompoc,CA
1,261 posts, read 4,681,169 times
Reputation: 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by World Citizen View Post
MAK,

I'm sure you realize that what you're describing is serious separation anxiety. My current dog, a labrador also was not crate trainable and had serious separation anxiety when I adopted him. He destroyed crates and / or escaped them and destroyed them. He completely melted down in a crate, salivating and sweating... it was terrible. If I left him inside the house for even a short time, he would scratch at the door and tear up the moulding trying to get out.

Just so you know that I really know what you're talking about, here's a link to the thread that I started when I first got my lab.

Crate training...separation anxiety..

In my dogs case, I finally found that putting him in an outdoor kennel when I left kept him from destroying anything. He didn't try to escape. The outdoors also seems to placate him. From reading over your posts, it seems that you're in an apartment so an outdoor kennel may not work out for you.

I've had my dog for over a year now. These days, my dog has settled down to the point that I've actually considered leaving him in the house alone when I'm gone. I would do it, except that he knows how to open doors and I'm afraid I will come home to an front door standing open. At least, you don't have to worry about that!

I may have missed it if someone else recommended it, but it sounds as though a good short term solution for this dog would be putting him in doggie daycare when you're gone.

There's a booklet by Patricia McConnell called "I'll be home Soon"... that I would recommend that you read.
It explains the symptoms of separation anxiety and it gives step by step solutions to the problem....

I've just scanned this thread. I hope that I've not duplicated other posters with my suggestions but if I have consider it confirmation.

Separation anxiety is very common with rescue dogs... I believe it is an issue that can be solved.

Since you've already lost your deposit,... maybe now you might as well see what you can do to help this dog.... ???
I agree! sounds like a good ole case of sep.anxiety. Good advice about the Pat McConnell book!!!! My Boxer girl had it and still has a bit,but getting better. I feel for you Mak!!!!! hang in there.

Greenchili
 
Old 03-19-2010, 10:36 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 92,241,841 times
Reputation: 30387
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAK802 View Post
His owner showed up at the beach yesterday, to see him.
Why do you still refer to this evil man as his owner?
 
Old 03-19-2010, 10:38 PM
 
3,593 posts, read 10,675,787 times
Reputation: 5207
Whew - Saw your bathroom & have seen a similar disaster area in our house(only it was our kitchen) Our Bandit came to us with severe anxiety along with a host of other issues that needed to be worked on. Poor Winston - no one can really know what the poor boy went through. I commend you on trying to find a way to work through his issues. I agree for the short term some medication of some sort to take the edge off his panic may help. Only you and your vet will be able to make that determination. For the long term, I think that a professional behaviourist may be of help in beating this. There IS hope! It took a lot of work with Bandit and I'll admit there were times I thought his panic at being left in the house would never go away but we did finally get him to the point that we could leave him without the house being torn apart. Is there any chance that Winston could go to doggie day care for a while? It would help drain off some extra energy and it would be a secure environment for him. Hang in there - we are all rooting for ya
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