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Old 04-08-2010, 08:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillife View Post
Thanks so much for the advice. So - should I get some chicken necks and backs tomorrow? Start him out with chicken and ease him into beef? His only experience with raw food thus far is meaty bones (beef). I'm not too concerned about his teeth as he is an English Bulldog with awesome chewing power. Yes, Steelstress, he is an adult dog - young adult (17 months). I'm excited about this! He's been so bored with his food lately, I feel bad, although at 75 lbs, he's clearly not starving.

LOL @ the sushi, MAK802! PC has sophisticated tastes!


NO NO NO!!! Necks and backs are too much bone to be feeding those alone. Poor guy will get constipated. If you feed those, he has to have more meat. Remember... he must have 80% meat, 10% bone only. Start off with chicken breasts... lowest % of bone to meat on a chicken. Considering he needs 2.25 lbs of food a day, you may want to buy whole chickens and cut them up. Toss the neck and back, unless you get some boneless meat to go with it. I'd just toss them. But quite frankly, I'd go with the bone-in chicken breasts for now.

If his poop is too chalky after feeding him, give him meat only at the next meal. Do you plan to feed once or twice a day? Weigh the breasts if you have food scale (or even a postal scale) so you have an idea of how much you're feeding him.

When you give him his chicken, I'd remove the skin and excess fat. It can cause runny poop.

What I do with my dogs (16 lbs one of them) is give meat only in the morning, and a chicken thigh in the evening. If the poop looks a little too hard, she gets all meat the next day.

So, buy the chicken breast, nothing else for now. See how Louie does with them, as far as his poop and his overall enjoyment of them. Don't trim/cut up anything for him (except skin and fat). Let him have a workout with the breast. That will exercise his jaw and give him a stimulating mental workout, also.

Let us know how the first meal goes, and if you're unsure about anything, post here so everyone else can read and learn about it, or DM/e-mail me. Earlier in the thread I posted a couple of links to 2 Yahoo! groups. VERY INFORMATIVE. I read these groups for 2 months before I started my dogs on the diet.
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Old 04-08-2010, 08:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stillife View Post
Thank you so much! We have a couple of butchers in my neighborhood that sell grass-fed beef. I'll make sure it's not grain-finished. I've heard about that. I'll check out the chicken - I'm more leery of fish simply because Louie doesn't seem to like it (at least when it's in canned dog food). Silly maybe, because I eat raw fish (sushi) all the time but I'm not sure it would agree with him. But I'll try the canned stuff.
Don't feed raw fish, it is one of the few raw meats that can make a dog ill. Canned fish has been cooked so it is safer. My dogs get sardines in oil with no salt added about once a week. Good for the coat.
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Old 04-08-2010, 09:10 PM
 
Location: San Diego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillife View Post
Thanks so much for the advice. So - should I get some chicken necks and backs tomorrow? Start him out with chicken and ease him into beef? His only experience with raw food thus far is meaty bones (beef). I'm not too concerned about his teeth as he is an English Bulldog with awesome chewing power. Yes, Steelstress, he is an adult dog - young adult (17 months). I'm excited about this! He's been so bored with his food lately, I feel bad, although at 75 lbs, he's clearly not starving.

LOL @ the sushi, MAK802! PC has sophisticated tastes!

Watch him when he eats the chicken necks. People that don't have Bulldogs have no concept of the breed. PC nearly choked to death when we first started! He doesn't chew food, but rather swallows. He tried to swallow an entire chicken neck and started gagging, then vomited! The introduction to raw was not good at first! When he got sick once and vomited, we saw entire pieces of undigested food in the vomit. Bulldogs are very known to not chew and have very different jaws than other breeds! Just a heads up!

When is his birthday? PC and him seem to be about the same age, he'll be 2 on August 30th!

And here is a link to what is perhaps the best raw feeding chart on the internet. You plug in your dog's weight/activity level and it tells you exactly how much to feed. Whoever designed this did an awesome job! Click on the link in the first post.

PERSONAL RAW FEEDING GUIDE (New and Improved) - Raw Food Diet Forum
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Old 04-08-2010, 09:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by steelstress View Post
OK, here are some basic rules to start off with:

Portions: I'm assuming Louie is an adult dog. His daily allocation should be right at about 3% of his normal adult weight, more if he's very active. 2% if he's overweight. Adjust as necessary for your dog.
Louie weighs 75lbs, so: 75 lbs x 16 = 1200 ozs.
1200 ozs x .03 = 36 oz of food per day.
Someone double check my math.

Raw diet should be fed as 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver (non-negotiable), 5% other organs. These %'s are not daily, but over time.

Meats must NOT be enhanced, meaning no seasoning, broths, solutions added to the meat. Only residual water from processing. Chicken is an excellent meat to start with, as it is the most easily digestible. Check labels carefully for any enhancements. And grass fed is always best.

Feed only ONE protein for about 2-3 weeks before feeding any organ meat. That'll give you a chance to monitor his poop and bone portions. Runny poop, need more bone.

What I do is I feed only meat in the morning, and bone-in meat in the evening. I add organ once or twice a week, keeping in mind the daily allotment. You can go over/under day to day, the key is to balance it out over time.

When introducing new protein (say, beef or pork), it needs to be eased into. So, I would do that by feeding 1/4 serving of the new meat with 3/4 serving of the chicken, and increase over a week or 2, again, monitor his digestion/poop. You'll become so excited to see his poop daily to see how you're doing with his diet.

As for bones, NEVER give bones that come from a leg of a LARGE animal. They're too hard and can easily break teeth.

Ok, mull this over and I'll continue checking back to answer any other questions you may have. If I don't have the answer, I can probably get it.
I have been feeding raw for 10 years and I feed 70% raw meaty bones (ex: chicken thighs , wings, the occasional whole game hen and lamb ribs) and 30% organ/veggie slop. Sometimes its liver, sometimes its heart with a variety of pulped veggies. I also mix in different meals, canned fish or yogurt, sometimes just eggs (smashed with the shell) and pulped veggies. (Oh and bananas!! Stops dogs from eating other animals poop!!) I top that off with a quality vitamin, fatty oil I frequently use flax but actually prefer fish oil, and glucosamine for the older dog.

I think the idea that there is some strict part of the raw food diet is sort of counter-intuitive to the logic of the diet itself. But at the same rate I tend to follow Pitcairn over Billinghurst so maybe that is it.
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Old 04-09-2010, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
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Excellent suggestions and links, thanks! I'll start with chicken breasts - we happen to have 2 cut up chickens in the fridge which I was going to use for my husband's birthday dinner but I can always get more this weekend.

MAK802, Louie will be 2 on November 5. Thanks for the warning about the chewing; Louie does indeed tend to inhale his food. One thing I'm a little concerned about is whether he'll take a chicken breast and drag it around the house like he does with his bones or will he keep it in the food dish. That's all I need is raw chicken on my bed! Well, I'll just wait and see what he does tonight.
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillife View Post
MAK802, Louie will be 2 on November 5. Thanks for the warning about the chewing; Louie does indeed tend to inhale his food. One thing I'm a little concerned about is whether he'll take a chicken breast and drag it around the house like he does with his bones or will he keep it in the food dish. That's all I need is raw chicken on my bed! Well, I'll just wait and see what he does tonight.
A general rule of thumb is to give them meaty bones too large to swallow all at once. You want them to rip the meat, break up the bones. Louie probably WON'T keep it in the food dish. Give him an area to eat it in, where he can comfortably work on it. You might give it to him on a towel and make him stay in a certain area to eat. None of my dogs kept their food in their dishes. As a matter of fact, I don't even use dishes anymore, just hand them the food and they take off to their spots, which I wipe up afterwards. Simple vinegar/water solution is good enough to clean and disinfect their area.

You'll probably want to stand by closely to watch him, but don't. Keep a distance. For some reason, a lot of dogs don't like that. I sit at my desk and keep an eye on them from there.
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
The dog with the curved teeth isnt having any problems its just that his canines are much more curved than my other dogs which are relatively straight. And they have been curved since his adult teeth came in. He is 3 and always been on raw.
I wonder if dog teeth can be like human teeth.

Through genetics, some people have hard enamel and teeth and others soft enamel and teeth. Since this BC is young, perhaps ask the breeder if he/she has seen or heard of this in the dog's line.
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:05 PM
 
Location: San Diego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillife View Post

MAK802, Louie will be 2 on November 5. Thanks for the warning about the chewing; Louie does indeed tend to inhale his food. One thing I'm a little concerned about is whether he'll take a chicken breast and drag it around the house like he does with his bones or will he keep it in the food dish. That's all I need is raw chicken on my bed! Well, I'll just wait and see what he does tonight.
Aww, they're almost the same age! PC tried dragging the food to his bed, where he eats all his treats, so the first few days we fed him outside. He now keeps it in a bowl or a little tarp we have set up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelstress View Post
A general rule of thumb is to give them meaty bones too large to swallow all at once. You want them to rip the meat, break up the bones. Louie probably WON'T keep it in the food dish. Give him an area to eat it in, where he can comfortably work on it. You might give it to him on a towel and make him stay in a certain area to eat. None of my dogs kept their food in their dishes. As a matter of fact, I don't even use dishes anymore, just hand them the food and they take off to their spots, which I wipe up afterwards. Simple vinegar/water solution is good enough to clean and disinfect their area.

You'll probably want to stand by closely to watch him, but don't. Keep a distance. For some reason, a lot of dogs don't like that. I sit at my desk and keep an eye on them from there.
It's a Bulldog we're talking about! They will try to swallow even huge pieces of meat/bone. Mine has on quite a few occasions, and the people on the Bulldog forum I'm on say theirs have as well.

The worst thing that ever happened was when he ate chicken one day. He must have swallowed the entire piece, and was constipated and crying the entire day. A few hours later, he pooped out the bone, which looked the same way it did when it went in. So for those that say the bones are digested, my dog proved otherwise!

Bulldogs are unlike any other breed. Mine doesn't care if I sit next to him and touch his food while he's eating. He's never been that type of dog. In fact, if I walk away when he's eating, he'll stop and follow me.
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:26 PM
 
6,475 posts, read 9,888,376 times
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Originally Posted by MAK802 View Post
It's a Bulldog we're talking about! They will try to swallow even huge pieces of meat/bone. Mine has on quite a few occasions, and the people on the Bulldog forum I'm on say theirs have as well.

The worst thing that ever happened was when he ate chicken one day. He must have swallowed the entire piece, and was constipated and crying the entire day. A few hours later, he pooped out the bone, which looked the same way it did when it went in. So for those that say the bones are digested, my dog proved otherwise!

Bulldogs are unlike any other breed. Mine doesn't care if I sit next to him and touch his food while he's eating. He's never been that type of dog. In fact, if I walk away when he's eating, he'll stop and follow me.
Well, most dogs try to swallow bones whole, that's why, in general, you feed bigger bones they can't get in their mouth at once. My dachsund does that, she'll swallow a whole thigh bone sometimes. My sheltie won't try to swallow all at once. She breaks it all up, no matter how small. And OF COURSE your dog was constipated... it won't digest in a few minutes. And yes, dogs can digest bone, just not within a few minutes of eating a whole one. Duh. My dogs, no larger than 16 lbs, digest bone every day.

Everyone feels there breed is like no other. In other forums, it has been demonstrated that it's quite common that dogs don't want to be hovered over while eating. My dachsund will take her meal and walk away from me, and my sheltie could care less. And the chi will seclude herself from the other dogs.

You do realize that when speaking generally, it doesn't apply 100%?
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:33 PM
 
Location: San Diego
5,027 posts, read 13,371,559 times
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Think what you want, but I find that most people don't understand Bulldogs, which is why we have a forum dedicated to the breed. What's normal in most dogs, is not in bullies. Bulldogs don't chew food. They inhale it. If you've ever seen one vomit, you will find food in there that looks like it did before going in. Full pieces of treat, full pieces of kibble if they eat that...they just do not chew!

And I don't expect him to digest bones in minutes! I said hours later, didn't I? At that point, 9 hours after eating, he shouldn't be pooping bones out! Louie is a Bulldog and his owner should be made aware of possible issues!

There's a reason Bulldog rescues around here won't place dogs in non-Bulldog experienced homes. People truly believe they are like other breeds, and that's when issues arise.
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