Duluth: Pros and Cons (Minneapolis: crime, houses, job market)

[aluminumpork]

Originally Posted by newcastle

Personally, I am very excited about the number of new developments in Duluth. Downtown is changing quite a bit. I don't know when you were last here, but there is a new 11 story hotel and condo downtown, SMDC built a new clinic, and there is an entire block of old buildings being renovated for office, retail, and condos. In the West End they are building a new Hockey Heritage Cneter with retail and hotel developments to follow.

There also new housing developments opening up, although not at the right time now, it appears with the market slumping.

Anyway, I think better days are ahead.

I've been seeing the same things and hoping it's a sign of more to come. I'm excited for the Miller Trunk Corridor re-design, I think that'll help the mall area out a lot. There are other exciting projects on hold right now too, that I really hope make it to realization, like the Technology Business Park between Uniprise and the MN Power Herbert Service Center. That would be hugely helpful to SISU and hopefully bring in more companies or allow local ones to expand.

As far as downtown goes, I'm loving the new developments, however, the "nice" parts of downtown are mostly all on Superior St. The YMCA re-model should really help modernize their block and bring it out of the 80s though.

Things seem to moving. I'm a little scared for the new school plan, but at the same time I'm excited to see school renovations and changes.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by newcastle

I think what I mean by isolation is that Duluth is the only significant population center in a 150 mile radious (in many cases this is good). Spatial geography plays a role in economic development, and I think Duluth's isolation hurts it economically. People view it as too distant a market and too small of a market to invest in.

I also think that Duluth isn't "close enough" to the Twin Cities to benefit from spin off growth. But its distance does help prevent sprawl which in my opininion is a good thing, because it keeps it from looking like everywhere else.

Mostly, Duluth isn't seen as a progressive city "mentally" people view it as a backwater. That's unfortunate because Duluth has tremendous potential to become a vibrant and attractive place to do business.

A good book that highlights Duluth as an increasingly attractive place is "Making Places Special" from the American Planning Association. Madison, Providence, Charleston and San Diego are all studied too.

There is also another reason while there is little investment towards Duluth: Climate. Very few people want to live in a climate where it stays cold for more then half of the year and gets below zero alot. Most people are going to the sunbelt cities. If you are a skiing enthusiast or like winter sports, then Duluth is a good place to do all of that. Otherwise, most people would not even think about moving to Duluth.

[roneb]

I for one have never understood why people would jump at the chance to move to a "sun-belt" location that is likely filled with smog from urban sprawl, where water is diverted irresponsibly to produce greenery where nature says there ain't suppose to be, and you don't get to experience the seasons. So what if Duluth is cold? It lets you know you're alive!

Note: I'm Scandinavian by heritage and grew up in Montana and Alaska. And yes, I ski too!

[tvdxer]

Originally Posted by roneb

I for one have never understood why people would jump at the chance to move to a "sun-belt" location that is likely filled with smog from urban sprawl, where water is diverted irresponsibly to produce greenery where nature says there ain't suppose to be, and you don't get to experience the seasons. So what if Duluth is cold? It lets you know you're alive!

Note: I'm Scandinavian by heritage and grew up in Montana and Alaska. And yes, I ski too!

It's not just the sunbelt, though. Even Chicago or Boston is warm compared to Duluth. Few places in the continental U.S. (that aren't mountaintops or North Dakota) get as cold as Duluth does, but even more importantly, few places stay cold as long as Duluth does. That's the real issue.

[newcastle]

Well, I agree with pirate_lafitte when speaking of US cities and climate. Many Canadian cities, that are just as cold and much farther north, are growing and are much larger than Duluth. Winnepeg, Edmonton, and Calgary are notable mentions. They all are growing and have populations of well over 600,000 people.

The US population ha sbeen moving steadily west and south for over a hundred years. The US census bureau has an intersting migratory map showing this westard expansion.

[aluminumpork]

In response to tvdxer. I understand the cold issue, but there still are cities that get just as cold as Duluth (Fargo for example) that are still growing, are pulling in plenty of technology business and have a major commercial foot print in comparison to Duluth. I think part of the current problem with pulling in new business is our sales tax that exists (to my knowledge) no where else in Minnesota. I can't imagine (unless the business is built around something that requires a certain climate) a business not picking Duluth because of it's climate if Duluth can offer them great reasons to locate here. Anyone have any opinions on that?

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by roneb

I for one have never understood why people would jump at the chance to move to a "sun-belt" location that is likely filled with smog from urban sprawl, where water is diverted irresponsibly to produce greenery where nature says there ain't suppose to be, and you don't get to experience the seasons. So what if Duluth is cold? It lets you know you're alive!

Note: I'm Scandinavian by heritage and grew up in Montana and Alaska. And yes, I ski too!

I never said I had anything personally wrong with the cold. What I was saying is that the main migration trend is to the Sun Belt cities because of the warmer climate and this leaves places like Duluth out of the picture.

[roneb]

Sorry pirate_lafitte, my response wasn't meant to come off as defensive or an attack on your post. Just an honest lack of understanding for that current migration trend; both on a personal level and in view of the environmental impacts that it creates. I don't think God really intended us to drain aquifers and import water needed for irrigation, just so we could make a desert green and livable. Personal opinion obviously not shared by most of southern CA or Phoenix, or Las Vegas, or...

We all should know that the best place to be is "God's Country", the North Shore of Superior!

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by roneb

Sorry pirate_lafitte, my response wasn't meant to come off as defensive or an attack on your post. Just an honest lack of understanding for that current migration trend; both on a personal level and in view of the environmental impacts that it creates. I don't think God really intended us to drain aquifers and import water needed for irrigation, just so we could make a desert green and livable. Personal opinion obviously not shared by most of southern CA or Phoenix, or Las Vegas, or...

We all should know that the best place to be is "God's Country", the North Shore of Superior!

No offense taken. Just an honest mistake. Take a look at metro Atlanta. Because of poor water management combined with a drought, Atlanta could run out of water soon. This is part of why I am leaving whenever I graduate college(or get a job in my field somewhere else).
There is another reason I believe that Duluth isn't attracting businesses. This is just a theory of mine. I believe that Duluth has to compete with Minneapolis-St.Paul. Some people see Duluth as an afterthought, a backwater town, where as Minneapolis is thought of as up and coming in the minds of some people. Take for instance Atlanta,GA and Savannah,GA. Atlanta for a long time was referenced to Gone With The Wind and other southernisms. With a steady trickle of northerners moving to Atlanta in the 1960's, these stereotypes(at least for the city of Atlanta) were slowly fading away and businesses were coming in. How do you think Atlanta has one of the world's top 10 busiest airports? Atlanta became the hub for commerce and transportation and grew to immense size and even won a bid for the 1996 Olympics. Savannah was the major port(and still is), but fell behind. There was little demand for Savannah. Now Savannah cannot easily compete with Atlanta in prominence. I see a similar scenario with the Twin Cities and Duluth. Duluth was known as a major port for shipping and for it's steel mills, which later closed down, which means a loss in jobs. With Minneapolis emerging as the big place for commerce in Minnesota, Duluth took a back seat in the minds of potential investors. It is major hub for the northern Great Lakes region and tourism is a major part of its economy.

[roneb]

Interesting parallel. I see your point.