Duluth Needs your Business, tax free

[knke0402]

"Duluth is filled with funny, hard working people, people with character"


um, ok?

It still doesnt change the fact that its a city with infrastructure built for 150,000 people and only has 80,000.

And Duluth is a tourist destination for Canal Park, Lakewalk, and Hiking Hills. If tourists could see the real ghettos they would understand.

[newcastle]

Originally Posted by skipast75

First off, I never said I loved Mr. Ness. But he is trying to make city government smaller, which is a good thing coming from a liberal. Second Duluth is not a decaying wasteland. If it was, it would not be the tourist destination that it has become. Half of Duluth has been redone in the past 20 years to make it the place it is today. And tax free does work, because when big businesses take advantage of tax free areas, they put people to work. People who end up making money, buying homes and paying property taxes. (Open your eyes to see the bigger picture) Duluth has a whole end of town that is full of vacant land.Land that could be used for anything. But instead it lays dormant. Downtown is clean and vibrant again. But more needs to be done. It is the left wing, give everything away to wrong people , mentality that has hurt duluth for so long. If your going to give something away, give it to someone who will employ people. Its just plain common sense. Duluth needs to put the unions in check, so they contribute to the economy, not just lock it up. And Duluth needs to attract wealthy folks who want to give to the community. Not just lock themselves up in there pretty hillside homes. Everyone exploits Duluth. The poor, and the rich. Its people like me who moved away, saw the rest of the country, and realized Duluth Should be a great place to work, not just a place to play. And Its people like you who should not talk about places you obviosly have no interest in. So please feel free to leave this thread. I know there are more people in this country who left and miss a lot about Duluth. If you are one of them, please Contribute something inteligent to this thread. If you are going to bash it, do it in a constructive way. Its a great place, filled with funny, hard working people. People with character. A kind of character only found in a few corners of this country. But we all know its problems, so lets talk about them, fix them, and make duluth the great place we all know it should be.

The tax free land idea came from Govenor Pawlenty it is called JOBZ (Job Opportunity Building Zones) designed to stimulate economic growth outside of the 12 county metro area, excluding St. Cloud. It was also designed to compete with the lower taxed states of S. Dakota and N. Dakota and keep businesses from moving to those states.

Any business that relocates to a JOBZ zone will not pay state taxes for 12 years, pay a livable wage, and add jobs to the local area. This is not a Mayor Ness idea or city of Duluth idea.

The city can take advantage of TIF (Tax Increment Finance) districts (Many cities use these across the state) to stimulate new development in distressed areas. Duluth has more than a dozen of these districts. The taxes the business would pay go to redevelop the site they are moving to. After 15-20 years the taxes go back to the city.

Duluth does have plenty of wealthy people that contribute. Please look at the Zeppa Foundation for starters, the Marshall Family (Marshall School), Palucci family, and Labovitz family (UMD Labovitz school of business), and check out the Duluth Superior Area Community Foundation. National foundations contribute thousands to Duluth too. The best example is the Knight Foundation, as in Knight Ridder News Papers.

Your right, Duluth is not a wasteland in decay. Simply look at the City Data Economic Development section (which is about 7 years old now) and you can track the numbe rof building permits, public and private development. It's in the billions.

[roneb]

Originally Posted by knke0402

And Duluth is a tourist destination for Canal Park, Lakewalk, and Hiking Hills. If tourists could see the real ghettos they would understand.

Get real! Duluth has no ghettos. Anyone who has been to larger cities (including Minneapolis/St Paul and Portland, where I live - both with great reputations) knows that Duluth has nothing that would compare if you wanted to go to the "rougher parts of town". Yes, Duluth has its problems; some of them quite serious. But there are a lot of us that would still love to live there!

[skipast75]

Thank you New Castle for explaining the Tax free situation. When ever I bring up duluth I either get "Duluth Sucks" or "Duluth is rad" from people. We all know it is a great town with problems. Sadly, the Palucci family and Labovitz family are percieved as part of the problem. They are two major employers in town. And many people know they love the cheap labor in duluth. There influence over city officials might be why higher paying competition never comes to town. (Bribes my friends) Because they love there almost slave labor. Anyone who looks elsewhere quickly realizes that Duluth is the poorest paying area in Minnesota. Its pay scale is an absolute Joke. In Montana the kids at McDonalds make more then people building million dollar airplanes at cirrus. Not that Cirrus is a problem, but why would anyone pay a decent wage when they don't have to. The only people doing ok in Duluth are the small business owners. Some are thriving I'm sure. And, no Duluth has no real Ghetto, but it sure has some terrible neighborhoods for a town of 86,000. Neighborhoods that do not exist in Fargo, Rochester, Missoula, Santa Barbara, Soix Falls, or any other healthy city of the same size. (cities Duluth's government should study) And when people stumble upon these neighborhoods, they never want to get lost in Duluth again. (I know because friends of mine who came to visit were down right repulsed by central hillside) Lets hope St Paul doesn't screw Duluth out of infrastructure money when Obama goes on a Tax Payer's spending Spree. Because St.Paul is also a problem in the puzzle. If anyone thinks I'm nuts for this reply, then take off your blindfold. At least enough to look into it as a possibility. And as for the Unions, we should all keep a very close eye on Detroit and the big 3. Because I'm sure Duluths stagnant economy could learn a lot from that situation as well.

[newcastle]

Originally Posted by skipast75

Thank you New Castle for explaining the Tax free situation. When ever I bring up duluth I either get "Duluth Sucks" or "Duluth is rad" from people. We all know it is a great town with problems. Sadly, the Palucci family and Labovitz family are percieved as part of the problem. They are two major employers in town. And many people know they love the cheap labor in duluth. There influence over city officials might be why higher paying competition never comes to town. (Bribes my friends) Because they love there almost slave labor. Anyone who looks elsewhere quickly realizes that Duluth is the poorest paying area in Minnesota. Its pay scale is an absolute Joke. In Montana the kids at McDonalds make more then people building million dollar airplanes at cirrus. Not that Cirrus is a problem, but why would anyone pay a decent wage when they don't have to. The only people doing ok in Duluth are the small business owners. Some are thriving I'm sure. And, no Duluth has no real Ghetto, but it sure has some terrible neighborhoods for a town of 86,000. Neighborhoods that do not exist in Fargo, Rochester, Missoula, Santa Barbara, Soix Falls, or any other healthy city of the same size. (cities Duluth's government should study) And when people stumble upon these neighborhoods, they never want to get lost in Duluth again. (I know because friends of mine who came to visit were down right repulsed by central hillside) Lets hope St Paul doesn't screw Duluth out of infrastructure money when Obama goes on a Tax Payer's spending Spree. Because St.Paul is also a problem in the puzzle. If anyone thinks I'm nuts for this reply, then take off your blindfold. At least enough to look into it as a possibility. And as for the Unions, we should all keep a very close eye on Detroit and the big 3. Because I'm sure Duluths stagnant economy could learn a lot from that situation as well.

Fargo and Sioux Falls grew more slowly than Duluth originally did and therefore do not have housing stock that is 100 plus years old in the quantity that Duluth does. Fargo and Sioux Falls did not lose every major employer in the span of ten-fifteen years (USX Duluth Works, Air Force Base, Coolerator, Marshall Wells, Clyde Iron) and face 18% unemployment for many many years.

Sioux Falls and Fargo are in low tax states, Minnesota is routinely lambasted for having a high tax policy. I can't speak for Missoula or Santa Barbara. However, Rochester is highly dependent on two major employers; Mayo and IBM. Every time IBM lays off a few hundred workers people in Rochester get nervous. Mayo employs 20, 000 plus and IBM about 5,000. Duluth would be different too if it had kept 3M from moving south about 100 years ago.

Duluth should focus on business retention and business incubators. INstead of dangling a big carrot for a big employer, they should coninue to make every effort to be hospitable to those already here. BTW, Labowvits and PAlucci are in business that always pay low wages, hospitality. Low cost is key to their industry.

[fromupthere]

Just an FYI but Mayo employs over 30,000 in Rochester and IBM is only around 4000. It certainly does help to have someone employing that many. Of course people at IBM get nervous when there are layoffs. Even as little as 10 years ago there were several thousand more employees there. Mayo recently laid off for the first time that I've ever heard of too.

I think it'd be nice to see all those businesses along Central Entrance that are old be redone as well - some gone with new ones replaced. I think fixing what's there is a major step needed as well as bringing new businesses in. I think if Duluth can make the city look newer and cleaner it would be more appealing to potential new businesses. As much as I would like to see lots of new businesses coming to Duluth, I hope a large employer comes before dozens more retail and hotel opportunities come along.

[slamont61]

The JOBZ program allows more than Duluth with the Tax insentive for new business. It's going to take a whole lot more than that to attract new business. There simply isn't a whole lot of that going on in today's economy.

In Sebeka we also are trying to attract new business with that insentive. We are actually able to reach out to the Technology sector because of the Fiber Optics that West Central has brought to the area. It allows the company I work for to exist. (that and the low cost of living)

If you want Duluth to become a candidate for new business, someone has to be agressively out there working to find it. Asking it to come is hardly going to work. I really think it CAN work but somebody needs to take on that specific task for Duluth almost as if it were their job.

Remember you are in competition with almost the entire state of Minnesota. It is going to take something really special to entice new business to the Duluth Region. What exactly is it that sets Duluth apart from the rest of the Land of 10,000 Lakes?

[duluthian2008]

This entire thread to me seems like just a big argument. I agree with some things that people are saying. But really when it comes to a ghetto, Duluth does not have one. The Central Hillside area and even some of the Lincoln Park areas may seem pretty run down, but that in no way makes them ghettos. Take for instance the Lincoln Park area.... do you really think a ghetto would have million dollar homes a few blocks up the road from it? Plus Duluth has really been cleaning up these areas and these areas are beginning to be renewed.

As far as it goes for businesses in Duluth I just feel Duluth doesn't do enough to attract them or keep them. Duluth has no incentives for businesses to stay here or build or locate here. This city is far too obsessed with a green landscape and by pleasing the large amount of environmentalists in Duluth than pleasing an interested business. I am not at all saying that a little green isnt good, but when a city denys building a large office building or remodeling a historic building for a large employer because of wanting to keep the green space, I find that absolutely ridiculous. I love Duluth, but the way it is right now needs to change soon.

The other problem with Duluth is that degrees that people have even with five colleges in the area are not the degrees these companies need their employers to have. So then what is the incentive to locate here? People easily can get degrees and most likely would but then we just are brought back to the same problem of Duluth denying zoning changes and any benefits for the city or for a business. Duluth is really just killing itself.

I think we all really would see a change in the business life in Duluth if the Northern Lights Express becomes a reality. Duluth's population would defiantly begin to boom again, and with that population boom would come more residents and businesses. I love my city and my thoughts on my city do not change that, I just want to see my city prosper into the city it once was.

[skipast75]

What is the Northern lights express? Maybe this thread is a big argument, but it is a very important one. You would be surprised to know who reads these threads. If we never talk about these things, nothing will ever be accomplished. I live over a thousand miles away, and worry a lot about my home town. Duluth IS worth fighting for. It has a rich history, that most towns only dream of having. And it has a natural setting even cities like Bozeman can't compete with. And Bozeman is surrounded by three mountain ranges. So, the feel I am getting is that we all agree Duluth needs to be more pro business and less worried about the environmentalists.But Let it be known that Environmentalists are a well needed factor in the Duluth area. Without them, the city would have continued destroying the land. The bay is polluted for generations to come, and the Gary area has a superfund site. But we need balance. Because if the over bearing Environmentalists continue there overpowering ways, there won't be much to protect. It is all about balance. And we should be able to achieve it with words. So please invite your friends to join this thread. Whether they are tree huggers or capitolistic businessmen, we need both sides to speak to each other.
On another note, Here in Big Sky MT, we have more multi million dollar homes then any area this size in the country. Including the most expensive home ever built in this country. The house has a heated chairlift that starts in the living room! My little town is only 2000 people, but has over 20 constuction companies building everything from new roads to homes to businesses. Why, because Montana is where Very rich people come to hide. And there are no unions slowing progress to a snails pace. Duluth has that appeal on a lesser scale, but because of it's dirtyness, and anti business climate, the city draws less then it should. If arteries like central entrance, and poor areas like lincoln park were to be cleaned up, it would go a long way.
sOne way to clean up areas like Lincoln park is to have WORKING TAX PAYING citizens move in. People that take pride in there homes and neighorhoods. So we have a chicken and the egg situation. We need jobs to attract the previosly mentioned, but need the previosly mentioned to clean up the area to attract jobs. So how do we clean up the city without the people first? By taking matters into your own hands. Everyday I have to yell at someone for littering (usually throwing a cig butt on the ground) Duluthians are terrible at keeping there own city clean. So next time you see something stupid happening like someone tossing a butt, or breaking glass at the beach, call them out on it. They won't do it again, I promise.
Maybe Duluth could use an ad campaign (similar to the get active billboard campaign) that states things that should be common sense. The city needs to offer programs like it had when I was a kid, programs that took kids skiing at Spirit Mtn for cheap. Anything to keep kids out of trouble. And the city needs to make it a priority to get people off of welfare. It needs to enforce the rules on welfare, because welfare isn't open ended anymore.Yet somehow people collect well beyond the allowed period in Duluth. It could be as simple as common sense to fix the city. Because it seems to have a lot of permafrost of the brain people. Or it could be as simple as someone who actually cares about duluth, to start paying a national scaled pay wage. Someone who knows they could be a little less rich for the better of Duluths economy. Someone Like Geno Pelucci. Because that guy is no friend to the city, if he was, he would have taken matters into his own hands years ago. He exploits Duluth, and uses it to his own advantage. He is a major employer, and it sounds like I am shooting myself in the foot, but the man has the money to buy the city, and fix it himself. Yet, I'm guessing he doesn't have anyone making over 25 grand a year working for him in Duluth. Maybe because so many people despise wealthy people in Duluth, he stays quiet. But he has the ball in his court.
So what are your ideas to help duluth grow? Remember, rich people are not the enemy, unless you make them the enemy. They hold the key to fixing the problems we speak of. Because money is what rules this country, unfortunately.

[newcastle]

Originally Posted by duluthian2008

This entire thread to me seems like just a big argument. I agree with some things that people are saying. But really when it comes to a ghetto, Duluth does not have one. The Central Hillside area and even some of the Lincoln Park areas may seem pretty run down, but that in no way makes them ghettos. Take for instance the Lincoln Park area.... do you really think a ghetto would have million dollar homes a few blocks up the road from it? Plus Duluth has really been cleaning up these areas and these areas are beginning to be renewed.

As far as it goes for businesses in Duluth I just feel Duluth doesn't do enough to attract them or keep them. Duluth has no incentives for businesses to stay here or build or locate here. This city is far too obsessed with a green landscape and by pleasing the large amount of environmentalists in Duluth than pleasing an interested business. I am not at all saying that a little green isnt good, but when a city denys building a large office building or remodeling a historic building for a large employer because of wanting to keep the green space, I find that absolutely ridiculous. I love Duluth, but the way it is right now needs to change soon.

The other problem with Duluth is that degrees that people have even with five colleges in the area are not the degrees these companies need their employers to have. So then what is the incentive to locate here? People easily can get degrees and most likely would but then we just are brought back to the same problem of Duluth denying zoning changes and any benefits for the city or for a business. Duluth is really just killing itself.

I think we all really would see a change in the business life in Duluth if the Northern Lights Express becomes a reality. Duluth's population would defiantly begin to boom again, and with that population boom would come more residents and businesses. I love my city and my thoughts on my city do not change that, I just want to see my city prosper into the city it once was.

Duluth has DEDA (city councilors masquerading as business retention and development), APEX (Area Partnership for Economic Expansion), the Chamber, a new young professional orginization called FUSE, Duluth/Superior Area Community Foundation, Northland Works, and a few other small venture capitalist firms too. I'm not an economic expert, but what else does a region need for business attraction?

I know lower taxes and a modern zoning code would help. Mayor Ness did hire someone in the city to modernize the zoning code. That's being worked on right now. The city did finally complete the Comprehensive Plan which will hopefully giude developers and they fired or let go of some people holding things up in the building permits office. All of these are positive to me.

I think Duluth has to work on ending the union grip at City Hall and it coninues ot fight a really poor image of beving anti-business. I do really, really, want the train to come up here. 110 mph to Minneapolis sounds about right to me.