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I haven't denied there was growth in Hermantown and some of the townships, but when you say "Although Duluth had declined to 85,000 or so, the surrounding cities and townships have increased in population about 13%." You're implying (along with knke) that the reason for Duluth's decline is that everyone is just moving to the surrounding area(of which Superior and Proctor are included), which is dishonest. Either Duluth or Superior alone have lost more people than all of the growth in the townships and Hermantown combined. People are leaving the area overall not just moving a few miles away.
I haven't denied there was growth in Hermantown and some of the townships, but when you say "Although Duluth had declined to 85,000 or so, the surrounding cities and townships have increased in population about 13%." You're implying (along with knke) that the reason for Duluth's decline is that everyone is just moving to the surrounding area(of which Superior and Proctor are included), which is dishonest. Either Duluth or Superior alone have lost more people than all of the growth in the townships and Hermantown combined. People are leaving the area overall not just moving a few miles away.
This is taken from a study conducted by the greater downtown council. See link.
"According to current 2000 Census population figures, the Duluth Study Area had 106,847 people in 2000, and remains at approximately 53 percent of St. Louis County’s total population base."
During the 1980s, the City of Duluth lost –7,300 people, a decrease of nearly -8.0 percent. The 1990s however, brought a stabilization of the former decline, and Duluth gained 1,425 people or 1.7 percent during the last decade. St. Louis County, which also lost a significant number of people during the 1980s, also added 2,315 people during the 1990s, or 1.2 percent.
Since Duluth's high population (in-city) was about 107,000 in 1970, the current figures show the wider area has about the same amount of people.
I never implied that people were not leaving, but you also can not say that people have not moved to Duluth or the area as well. I am not DISHONEST about the decline in the city of Duluth's population nor did I simply imply that people moved to the suburbs (if you can call them that). I said in my reply that the city is at 85,000. You even quoted it back to me. Check out the data yourself.
Looking at Census figures released today that hint at 2010 population, the Duluth Metro gained about 1500 people, Duluth remains "stable" at about 85,000
Duluth's MSA figures are always very shaky; everyone living in St. Louis, Carlton, and Douglas Ctys. is considered to be living in the "Duluth metro." It only predicts a growth of 900 not 1,500 by between 2000-2009. 275,486-->276,368
Quote:
I said in my reply that the city is at 85,000
You did, but you also said that the surrounding cities and townships have increased by 13%. I don't know where this 13% figure comes in, because you don't specify over what period of time and it only is true if you count a few of the townships and Hermantown, and even then I'm not sure if it holds up. If you are excluding certain places, then it is dishonest.Superior alone has lost about 25,000 people since its peak, which probably surpasses how many people are living in Hermantown, Proctor, and the few immediate townships combined.
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I am not DISHONEST about the decline in the city of Duluth's population nor did I simply imply that people moved to the suburbs
You imply it when someone is asking why Duluth has shrunk so much and you chirp in that although the city proper has shrunk, the surrounding area has grown by 13%. That implies that the gains in the surrounding area are at the least offsetting some of Duluth's losses, but the surrounding area has not seen growth save a few townships and Hermantown.
Do census's take in college studetns living temporarily?
I know when it's the school year, UMD, CSS and LSC bring in almost 20,000 students. Are these numbers considered in census?
Living in ST CLOUD for 4 years I always wondered that. There were about 10,000 SCSU students living in St. Cloud, and wondered if they were included in the 65,000 pop figures.
Duluth's MSA figures are always very shaky; everyone living in St. Louis, Carlton, and Douglas Ctys. is considered to be living in the "Duluth metro." It only predicts a growth of 900 not 1,500 by between 2000-2009. 275,486-->276,368
You did, but you also said that the surrounding cities and townships have increased by 13%. I don't know where this 13% figure comes in, because you don't specify over what period of time and it only is true if you count a few of the townships and Hermantown, and even then I'm not sure if it holds up. If you are excluding certain places, then it is dishonest.Superior alone has lost about 25,000 people since its peak, which probably surpasses how many people are living in Hermantown, Proctor, and the few immediate townships combined.
You imply it when someone is asking why Duluth has shrunk so much and you chirp in that although the city proper has shrunk, the surrounding area has grown by 13%. That implies that the gains in the surrounding area are at the least offsetting some of Duluth's losses, but the surrounding area has not seen growth save a few townships and Hermantown.
This is where I got the 13% figure from. I had to dig and find the source that is from the city's comprehensive plan from 2006.
As discussed in the Dempgraphic profile, Duluth’s population grew in the 1990s for the first time in four decades, increasing from 85,493 in 1990 to 86,918 in 2000, or about 1.6%. Meanwhile, the population of the surrounding cities and townships grew much more rapidly. Population in the Duluth suburbs increased by 13.4%, ahead of the nation as a whole, which increased by 13.1%.
So I will continue to chirp, chirp away that the surrounding area is offsetting Duluth's losses.
Its intresting though, but Mpls, Stp, Bloomington are all together in an area, so Id suspect that the reason Bloomington comes in third place as far as popular city to visit, it must be because of the MoA, and the airport, but coming in fourth is Duluth as for popular cities to visit, most visited in Minnesota, and St Cloud comes in at number ten on the list, Bemidji at number eleven.
I think thats real good reason for the city staying at about 86k and down deep hope it dosent get much larger, I like the city of Duluth and for good reason its at number four in the state.
Last edited by demtion35; 03-24-2010 at 01:56 PM..
Do census's take in college studetns living temporarily?
I know when it's the school year, UMD, CSS and LSC bring in almost 20,000 students. Are these numbers considered in census?
Yes, they are counted as Duluthians as long as they are living inside the city limits on April 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newcastle
This is where I got the 13% figure from. I had to dig and find the source that is from the city's comprehensive plan from 2006.
Thank you for finally providing what I asked for. But you should read everything with a grain of salt. This figure also leaves out the by far largest factor on Duluth's surrounding area growth rate and it only applies to 1990-2000.
I remember once someone told me that Duluth always gets it right 10 years after everywhere else does. The Tech Village. The downtown condos. The downtown housing. And then we have the CAVE (citizens against virtually everything) who are stuck in a time warp who still hate gay people, hate people of different religions, are nice to people of color only because they're afraid of them, and are threatened by people who are educated, single and don't have kids. There is little tolerance for difference in Duluth, and in every city that has this attitude - it's a dying city. Studies have shown that where there is such stubborn, fear-driven personalities, those cities do not get the progressive, forward-thinking businesses that generate people with high educations and incomes. They want diversity. They want to see new buildings, new life downtown, new energy. It's not here.
I'm thinking that Duluth will be about the size of Hibbing (15 or 20 thousand people) in the next 3-4 decades. One thing I mentioned before is our geographic isolation. As more and more jobs leave here, people who DO have good jobs are going to start squirming - what if they're next? Everyone here knows that if you lose a 'good' job here, you are not going to find another one soon. Because of the urgency of finding something, more people are going to move to larger cities that have more to offer. Geographically Duluth is not a desirable location because the closest city that has anything to offer, and is comparable in size, is 150 miles away. If Duluth were similar to the Quad Cities - where we had 4 cities with 84,000 that were all within a 20-30 minute drive, I could see potential here. But Superior, Cloquet, etc - that's not enough. They depend on Duluth for jobs just as much as Duluthians do, and that's not a good sign.
About ten years ago when everyone figured that it no longer mattered where you lived because we could all work from home online and that would take care of the distance issue, etc., well, that just wasn't practical. It turns out you do need to be in or near a major metro area in order to find employment that is going to create a stable income. Every week I see more and more people in Duluth who are in fear of losing their jobs, or if they are starting to send out resumes for new ones, they're no longer looking in Duluth anymore. They're looking to get out.
And we don't need three high schools or even two. I think having one would have been just fine, especially with where the city is headed. I'm not trying to sound negative, just realistic and I think that those who said 'no' to everything over the past 40 years really need to understand how much that impacted our future as a city that could be on the map. How much longer until we no longer have local news stations and everything comes from the Twin Cities?
They do not include students in the census, so add another few thousand kids into the population.
Duluths decline began after they closed the steel plant operations throughout the 1970s, and it will most likely never return to that level of population.
I remember once someone told me that Duluth always gets it right 10 years after everywhere else does. The Tech Village. The downtown condos. The downtown housing. And then we have the CAVE (citizens against virtually everything) who are stuck in a time warp who still hate gay people, hate people of different religions, are nice to people of color only because they're afraid of them, and are threatened by people who are educated, single and don't have kids. There is little tolerance for difference in Duluth, and in every city that has this attitude - it's a dying city. Studies have shown that where there is such stubborn, fear-driven personalities, those cities do not get the progressive, forward-thinking businesses that generate people with high educations and incomes. They want diversity. They want to see new buildings, new life downtown, new energy. It's not here.
I'm thinking that Duluth will be about the size of Hibbing (15 or 20 thousand people) in the next 3-4 decades. One thing I mentioned before is our geographic isolation. As more and more jobs leave here, people who DO have good jobs are going to start squirming - what if they're next? Everyone here knows that if you lose a 'good' job here, you are not going to find another one soon. Because of the urgency of finding something, more people are going to move to larger cities that have more to offer. Geographically Duluth is not a desirable location because the closest city that has anything to offer, and is comparable in size, is 150 miles away. If Duluth were similar to the Quad Cities - where we had 4 cities with 84,000 that were all within a 20-30 minute drive, I could see potential here. But Superior, Cloquet, etc - that's not enough. They depend on Duluth for jobs just as much as Duluthians do, and that's not a good sign.
About ten years ago when everyone figured that it no longer mattered where you lived because we could all work from home online and that would take care of the distance issue, etc., well, that just wasn't practical. It turns out you do need to be in or near a major metro area in order to find employment that is going to create a stable income. Every week I see more and more people in Duluth who are in fear of losing their jobs, or if they are starting to send out resumes for new ones, they're no longer looking in Duluth anymore. They're looking to get out.
And we don't need three high schools or even two. I think having one would have been just fine, especially with where the city is headed. I'm not trying to sound negative, just realistic and I think that those who said 'no' to everything over the past 40 years really need to understand how much that impacted our future as a city that could be on the map. How much longer until we no longer have local news stations and everything comes from the Twin Cities?
I agree, I see Duluth dying and eventually becoming the size of about Mankato.. It's just not feasible to raise a family here. No paying jobs, no skilled jobs, deterriorating housing stock
You know you're in a dilemma when 75% of your city's housing stock was built before 1950. In the Cities, at least people have the disposible income and that drive to keep their homes and lawns in shape. That is NOT the case in Duluth. Many of the homes have never been rennovated or fixed up... Plus the roads are falling apart.
Unless the city can have a huge employer come to town, and have it's residents start being accoutnable for their crappy houses, then you'll see a change, until then Duluth is just on it's way to becoming a glorified Two Harbors.
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