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So really, your only truly solid point is the health care one. If you learn to save and pay cash for cars, you'll never fall into the car payment trap.
Im not quite sure how you and a few others cant comprehend that saving for a car and car payments are literally the same exact thing. Unless you are some stock trading oracle, the only difference between the two would be the interest youd get throwing the money in the bank, or the interest youd pay on a car loan, which would only come out to a few hundred bucks over the course of 5 years if you had decent credit.
Oh yeah, by the way, some people dont have the luxury of saving up for 2 years or more to buy a car. We all dont live in a city with good public transportation, in fact, most of us live where there is unreliable public transporation at very best.
But problem with comparing is, people do that at every economic level. It never stops. At some point, you have to decide you have enough and be happy with it.
It turns out psychologists and economists have figured out that an income above 40K add only a very small amount to peoples' happiness. Once you hit the 40K threshold, your happiness has to come from your relationships with other people, not more money or more stuff.
Actually that was a British study recently, and the figure was around 70k pounds if Im not mistaken (I cant find the article).
Which would suggest the "happiness" number is far greater then 40k, as only 42% of people making 30k or less were "happy".
The "happiness" number is the point in which not only are your basic neccessities covered, but you have also reached the point where self fullfillment is a financial reality. In other words, when work goes beyond simply "working to live" and is providing vacations, opportunities for volunteerism and education, artistic pursuits, hobbies and leisure time.
Only a very sad person lives to work, and the majority of humans are not of this breed, nor should they be, and they arent very happy being forced in to that life either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger
Now, if Randomdude is as unhappy in the rest of his life as he sounds on this board, then I'd guess he's got some serious relationship problems with other people.
Yep, its my personal relationships making me unhappy, not the fact that my labor value is being stolen to such a point that I cannot afford healthcare, car payments, new clothes, an average dwelling or retirement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger
Interestingly enough, once you reach a certain point, being happy actually can bring you more money instead of the other way around. If you think about it, it makes sense. No one wants to work with someone who is unhappy. People who are unhappy tend to have poor social skills. And they tend not to do as well at work. So therefore, they make less money than people with good social skills.
And what scientific study are you quoting here? I would love to see the correlation between people who are unsatisfied with their income level, and their lack of social skills.
I was placed on 'full-time orders' status a month ago, for a duration of 3 months. My income as a result of that status has almost doubled. I can ,for the duration of this tenure, afford to do the kind of discretionary spending that makes me smile. I'll be able to travel to my family and friends and not create a hardship on my cost of living budget. My savings in three months will exceed my savings for the previous six combined, even after said discretionary spending. I'll be able to " blow" money on my recreational activities with much more freedom, and not worry about affecting my cost of living budget. I am not completely happy only because I know in three months that income level will end.
Once I revert back to slave-away status my income will go back to its natural state, where I won't be smiling, I'll merely be treading water. All the while, I'm performing the same duty and the same hours, literally. One income level makes me content and productive, the other makes me cautious, unhappy, frugal and contemptuous of my employer. Funny how money solves that huh....
Yep, it's amazing what an extra 2500/mo can do for my life and aspirations. I'd say I've empirically proven that earning a living to merely subsist, absent recreational pursuits, discretionary spending to share with friends and family and absent the ability to do all that while attaining modest savings, is simply not a life worth pursuing. Getting up in the morning and breathing is not good enough for me to be alive. Leave that to the starving ethiopian. I don't consider life a spectator sport; living to subsistence and imposed frugality is being a spectator in life. And this country as a value was certainly NOT founded on the principles of contentment over a tread-water existence. You don't get to launch the Space Shuttle or push a metal airplane supersonic because everybody is friggin' happy to have zero left after taxes, housing, medical and food and one BW TV..... Eff that. Give me curtain #2 Bob....
But problem with comparing is, people do that at every economic level. It never stops. At some point, you have to decide you have enough and be happy with it.
It turns out psychologists and economists have figured out that an income above 40K add only a very small amount to peoples' happiness. Once you hit the 40K threshold, your happiness has to come from your relationships with other people, not more money or more stuff.
As I said in another thread, I don't put very much stock in those findings at all; there are way too many factors at the individual level to arrive at such a broad conclusion. I know where I live, I could never be "happy" with $40k/yr even if I gave up my more expensive tastes, because for where most people live in CA, that's ghetto status. I suppose I'd find it more believable if the findings suggested a level of $100k, but it's still a suspiciously general conclusion to arrive at.
And yes, nearly $11/hour for an ENTRY-LEVEL job that requires NO EDUCATION is pretty darn good. i'd rather work at wal-mart than over a hot fryer in McD's if I needed a job like that.
Nobody owes you anything, least of all if you didn't decide to go to school and get an education. $11 an hour is a great job if you're a teen or a retired person looking to make a few extra bucks.
Again, $11 an hour is the AVERAGE wage. Most Walmart workers START right around minimum wage.
while most of the people are concentrated in low paying **** jobs where they are not even receiving a fraction of what they are producing.
This is no based in reality. If lower paid workers were only receiving a fraction of what they produced they would produce huge margins for the business, yet competition would reduce this margin over time.
Lower paid workers are paid less because they produce less value, the only time a company can ignore downward price pressure from increased competition is when it has some sort of monopoly power. But most businesses that employ low income individuals have no such power.
This is no based in reality. If lower paid workers were only receiving a fraction of what they produced they would produce huge margins for the business, yet competition would reduce this margin over time.
Lower paid workers are paid less because they produce less value, the only time a company can ignore downward price pressure from increased competition is when it has some sort of monopoly power. But most businesses that employ low income individuals have no such power.
The margins have nothing to do with anything. The profit per unit doesnt matter unless the number of units per worker is also factored in. The fact is, talk to almost any McDonalds owner in a decent traffic area, ask them what their total cut off the top is. They are probably putting more in their pocket per year then the complete and total payroll comes to. Unless the restaurant owner actually performs some function for the business other then "capital owner", its all stolen labor value.
In fact, the worst performing McDonalds in the whole country in 2008, probably out in bum****, AL netted its owner about 50k if you apply the average store profit margin to its sales.
The fact is, talk to almost any McDonalds owner in a decent traffic area....
The fact is, like most things you say, this is completely made up. The profit margin for most fast food places is anywhere from 5~10%. The average gross sales for McDonalds is around $2 million, so the average owner is getting around $200k/year or less. Yet the labor costs will be around $400k~$500k.
Most franchise owners are not completely removed from the business and doing so will eat into their income as you can't pay someone a crap wage to run restaurant.
Regardless, high margins attract competition and don't last long.
Well said.
The U.S. used to see each generation doing better than their parents. No more.
Part of our problem is that schools are not graduating kids as skilled as those of some other countries, but even if they were, the salaries people are getting in other countries are bringing us down.
I can see a day in which our loyalties will no longer be to our countries, but to the international mega corporation that is kind enough to employ us - the new slave owner.
This day is already here. It was yesterday, LOL!
Latest example I tripped over... "Union Bank", formerly "Union Bank of California" is owned by Mitsubishi Financial, LOL!
I imagine there are others as well. The Japanese and German automakers come to mind, that have plants in the U.S. And of course U.S. companies like IBM have divisions and employees worldwide.
Bottom line is, we all need an income to survive in the current iteration of society. Most of us aren't born with, nor acquire sufficient assets to be self owning and independent at the level of survival we'd like to be at, so we settle for the halfway solution and become worker bees.
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