To anyone over the age of 50 (unemployed, workers, economic, responsibility)

[nicet4]

Originally Posted by hilgi

FICA & SECA Tax Rates

Contribution and Benefit Base

Your numbers are way off. Your first year working, assuming you made $4,800, the most you could have paid in was $174.

By 1980 assuming your made the wage cap, you would have paid in $1,519 that year.

Based on the wage cap you would not have paid in $5,000 in any one year until 2001.

For 25 years I was self employed which meant SE tax.

[hilgi]

Originally Posted by nicet4

For 25 years I was self employed which meant SE tax.

So you showed the employer contribution also, ok. Either way, you were paying in hundreds a year for the first 20, not thousands.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by nicet4

For 25 years I was self employed which meant SE tax.

You are paying the same tax regardless, whether you're paying 100% of it or its split 50/50 between you and the employer makes no difference.

Anyhow, the numbers seemed off but I was too lazy to look up the historic caps so I'm glad someone else did!

[hilgi]

Originally Posted by user_id

Anyhow, the numbers seemed off but I was too lazy to look up the historic caps so I'm glad someone else did!

Your welcome. :=) I have had to show seniors the reality for years. Back in the 90's I would show guys that they got all their SS tax back in about 6 years.

[shaker281]

I will happily take back all that I have paid into Social Security (with interest) and be on my way. Of course, that is not going to happen. Fact remains that if someone has paid into the system for 40 years, it is not greedy to expect that the promised benefit is paid out.

How would health insurance be any different? Oh gee, I only paid in premiums totaling 50K so far, I couldn't possible accept that life saving operation that costs much more. I'll just sit here and die, thank you anyhow.

Until someone here can prove they are entitled to benefits and have refused them then I guess we are all just greedy slackers who expect something for nothing!

Same thing for company pensions. A company promises a pension as a form of deferred compensation. It is not wrong to expect that they actually meet their obligations.

I love how the rules are suddenly different and that which was promised and earned is now an entitlement! Whatever becomes of Social Security, I will never be ashamed to cash the check.

And all you pessimists that think America is down and out should review history. This is hardly our darkest hour. Tighten that belt and find a way to succeed! Or at the very least S*T*F*U.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by shaker281

I love how the rules are suddenly different and that which was promised and earned is now an entitlement!

It was always an entitlement, a guarantee to some benefit is an entitlement by definition.

In most cases boomer entitlements are only partially earned, most pensions, etc over-estimated future yields and are now under-funded. Boomers hallowed out the productivity capacity of the US, yet their entitlements hing on future productivity.

Originally Posted by shaker281

And all you pessimists that think America is down and out should review history. This is hardly our darkest hour.

A review of history shows numerous previously powerful nations becoming irrelevant over time.

[shaker281]

Originally Posted by user_id

It was always an entitlement, a guarantee to some benefit is an entitlement by definition. I n most cases boomer entitlements are only partially earned, most pensions, etc over-estimated future yields and are now under-funded. Boomers hallowed out the productivity capacity of the US, yet their entitlements hing on future productivity.

By your definition, your weekly paycheck would be an "entitlement". Something you earn or fund is not an entitlement. And using the word to denigrate hard working people who expect a return on their investment is pure and simply ignorant bu11sh1t!

The fact that pensions were underfunded/mismanaged by the entities that promoted them does not alleviate the obligations. Pensions were part of a "total compensation package" for many people. As I said previously, deferred compensation. Employers offered to fund an annuity in lieu of higher pay (or in current terms, 401K matching contributions). I suppose you would consider the "company match" portion of a 401K an entitlement that could be forfeit at the companies discretion?

I would love to see you prove how "boomers hallowed (sic) out the productive capacity of the US", as compared to, say, the last few generations. Feel free to post a fact based analysis, not just "look at the situation we are in, it must be someone else's fault".

Furthermore, you seem to be promoting the notion that since pensions and Social Security were poorly managed that their obligations are null and void. That is some seriously irresponsible thinking. Eventually, when they stop pension and Social Security payments an enormous segment of society is going to stop buying things. Good luck to the next generation that is trying to remain gainfully employed when no one is buying computers, cars, cell phones, televisions, refrigerators, restaurant meals, etc, because they can barely afford to eat. And those young folks can kiss goodbye their future inheritance (transfer of wealth) which will be spent on groceries, medicine and utility bills. But, that is no biggie, cuz that really is an entitlement!

Originally Posted by user_id

A review of history shows numerous previously powerful nations becoming irrelevant over time.

That response is a complete non sequitur to what I posted. But, to your point, being the second or third or tenth most powerful nation does not make one irrelevant. Seriously, are you going with the old "fall of the Roman empire" corollary here? Why not go with, "The sky is falling", Chicken Little?

[user_id]

Originally Posted by shaker281

By your definition, your weekly paycheck would be an "entitlement". Something you earn or fund is not an entitlement.

An entitlement is a guaranteed benefit. A pension is an entitlement, where as a 401(k) is not. If boomer entitlements were completely earned there would not be a problem, but they are only partially earned.

I did not create the definition of entitlement, if you find it to be a dirty word that is your problem.

Originally Posted by shaker281

The fact that pensions were underfunded/mismanaged by the entities that promoted them does not alleviate the obligations.

Right, hence why its an entitlement.

Originally Posted by shaker281

I suppose you would consider the "company match" portion of a 401K an entitlement that could be forfeit at the companies discretion?

No, company matching is no different than a wage. The company has no obligation in this case, they can stop the contributions at any time and they have nothing to do with the contribution once its made.

Originally Posted by shaker281

I would love to see you prove how "boomers hallowed (sic) out the productive capacity of the US", as compared to, say, the last few generations. Feel free to post a fact based analysis, not just "look at the situation we are in, it must be someone else's fault".

So you want a fact based analysis, yet I can't included the current economic conditions? The current economy is the end result of 20~30 years of economic mismanagement.

Anyhow, most economic numbers (public debt, savings rate, etc) started to sour when the boomers started to take control of the economy (early to mid 80's).

But we shouldn't blame the boomers despite the fact that they were the ones in control?

Originally Posted by shaker281

Furthermore, you seem to be promoting the notion that since pensions and Social Security were poorly managed that their obligations are null and void.

No, I'm promotion the idea that Gen X and Y should let the boomers rot in their self-righteous notions of personal responsibility. Pensions, social security, etc should all be trimmed down to levels that match actual contributions, in most cases that amounts to a reduction of around 20~30%.

Originally Posted by shaker281

That is some seriously irresponsible thinking. Eventually, when they stop pension and Social Security payments an enormous segment of society is going to stop buying things.

And this is some seriously flawed thinking. Do you think the money to make up for pension, social security, etc short-falls is going to magically materialize? Its not, you are merely taking money from one group (the younger) and giving it to the older. Stopping this transfer of wealth will have no effect on aggregate demand, it will just be a different group that is spending it.

Originally Posted by shaker281

And those young folks can kiss goodbye their future inheritance (transfer of wealth) which will be spent on groceries, medicine and utility bills. But, that is no biggie, cuz that really is an entitlement!

Having extra money today will benefit today's youth far more than having extra money in a couple of decades due to the power of compounding.

Originally Posted by shaker281

But, to your point, being the second or third or tenth most powerful nation does not make one irrelevant. Seriously, are you going with the old "fall of the Roman empire" corollary here? Why not go with, "The sky is falling", Chicken Little?

When did I say that being the second or third most powerful nation makes one irrelevant? I said that there are many examples of history of previously powerful nations becoming irrelevant. Additionally, I never mentioned the Roman Empire, nor did I suggest the US will become irrelevant. Rather I was responding to the erroneous idea that history shows that the US has nothing to worry about.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by fanman72

Thanks for ****ty, second rate country we'll inherit! You did an amazing job managing & squandering the most prosperous time America has ever experienced, and in the process stealing from future generations

Why did you bother phrase it as a question when you already "knew" the answer?

[Jaggy001]

Originally Posted by fanman72

Thanks for ****ty, second rate country we'll inherit! You did an amazing job managing & squandering the most prosperous time America has ever experienced, and in the process stealing from future generations

And our biggest mistake was giving birth to a bunch of ungrateful kids