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Old 07-27-2010, 12:44 PM
 
Location: 'Murica
1,278 posts, read 1,374,946 times
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You can't tax your way into prosperity. Being subject to a 90% tax rate would mean that you don't invest much of your money into the American economy, which employs those millions of middle-class workers you're trying to help. Instead, that wealth will be hidden offshore and in places the IRS can't touch.
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:58 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
5,975 posts, read 3,229,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinsanity View Post
You can't tax your way into prosperity. Being subject to a 90% tax rate would mean that you don't invest much of your money into the American economy, which employs those millions of middle-class workers you're trying to help. Instead, that wealth will be hidden offshore and in places the IRS can't touch.
The benefits of lowering lower class taxes would far outweigh the increases in upper income classes. The government is more than capable of tracking wealth any where in the world.
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:00 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,521 posts, read 4,263,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
I am not a fan of socialism either, but it is the system we have like it or not. The problem is that it is skewed radically to benefit the upper classes. The argument that there is a difference between wealthy and rich is nonsense. The wealthy must invest their money and therefore create income, which can be taxed. Without some mechanism in place to put more money in the hands of lower classes the economy cannot recover. The alternative is a state of permanent high unemployment and lower standards of living for working classes. If you look at the biggest difference in the US and countries where the economy is more stable like Germany, you will find the difference is income disparity.
If socialism is what we have then it isn't working very well.

What is nonsense between Bill Gates and a sales guy who made $250k a year for a couple years? They are equal in your mind?

The wealthy can invest in tax free munis as Ross Perot does. They can also invest in business and innovation. Sure, you can tax that so they won't have the opportunity but at what cost?

How will taxes end up in the hands of the lower class? We have $75 trillions in unfunded entitlements and trillions in other debts.

Why is that the alternative? Our system is screwed because of the demographics and innovation cycle peaks, tinkering with taxes won't help those forces. Time and a reduction is spending is our only hope, unless we reform our whole system like I posted in the other topic.

Germany will be in worse shape than we are demographically, I don't want to emulate them.
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:03 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The benefits of lowering lower class taxes would far outweigh the increases in upper income classes. The government is more than capable of tracking wealth any where in the world.
The lower class don't pay taxes, they recieve an EIC.
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:11 PM
 
Location: 'Murica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The benefits of lowering lower class taxes would far outweigh the increases in upper income classes. The government is more than capable of tracking wealth any where in the world.
Just because they can doesn't mean that they have the legal right to, unless you're willing to rewrite the tax code that gives the IRS the authority to basically steal from people.

And hilgi brings up a good point. Don't 47% of tax filers have zero liability, or something like that? How do you reduce your tax liability from zero?
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:21 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,521 posts, read 4,263,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinsanity View Post
Just because they can doesn't mean that they have the legal right to, unless you're willing to rewrite the tax code that gives the IRS the authority to basically steal from people.

And hilgi brings up a good point. Don't 47% of tax filers have zero liability, or something like that? How do you reduce your tax liability from zero?
The standard reply is they pay SS and and Medi tax but as I mentioned , the EIC will return most if not all of those taxes to the lower class.
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Castle Hills
1,054 posts, read 1,542,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
I am not a fan of socialism either, but it is the system we have like it or not. The problem is that it is skewed radically to benefit the upper classes. The argument that there is a difference between wealthy and rich is nonsense. The wealthy must invest their money and therefore create income, which can be taxed. Without some mechanism in place to put more money in the hands of lower classes the economy cannot recover. The alternative is a state of permanent high unemployment and lower standards of living for working classes. If you look at the biggest difference in the US and countries where the economy is more stable like Germany, you will find the difference is income disparity.
I have to agree with Jim above. I'm all for a certain level of capitalism, but the disparity is just too great right now. What I'm seeing is a lot of middle class having to get used to a new normal, which is much lower living standards and I'm not sure how bad the poor are suffering.. but I would have to guess it's very bad. The government cannot just tax the rich more and expect that to fix our problems though. They have to first make major cuts in government spending and employment. There are way too many government workers who are getting a free ride and don't do s h i t every day.. and then collect a fat paycheck and enjoy amazing benefits.

If the disparity gets to be too great.. you will see an uprising.
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:26 PM
 
1,472 posts, read 2,835,518 times
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How about a national sales tax or a flat tax. First, government needs to spend less...that is the biggest problem. I'm not someone who thinks we should tax the rich more just because they are "wealthy". I'm not jealous of them and don't think they should be unfairly treated because they have made more money than I have. I think everyone should pay the same % of taxes. So I support either a flat tax or a national sales tax. When the wealthy buy their yachts or whatever really expensive item they decide to buy, they will pay more $ because it costs more.

If everyone is considered equal under the law, then everyone should be treated equal. It is a slippery slope when you start attacking one group or another. Otherwise you talking about the Bourgeoisie just like in the Communist Manifesto.
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:33 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
5,975 posts, read 3,229,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
The lower class don't pay taxes, they recieve an EIC.
There are several taxes, not just income tax that effect your ability to purchace. Here is an example of what you need to earn in order to purchace goods after taxes.


Table 7 Income Needed to Purchase Various Goods and Services after Taxes

Price ----- Income Needed, Wage Earner

Average-tax state (Michigan)

Car $10,000 ------ $17,038
Computer $1,500------ $2,556
Tuition$8,000 ------ $13,107
Gasoline $479------ $1,065

High-tax state (California)

Car $10,000 ----- $18,776
Computer$1,500----- $2,816
Tuition $8,000----- $13,877
Gasoline$469----- $1,127
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:47 PM
 
Location: 'Murica
1,278 posts, read 1,374,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufcrules1 View Post
I have to agree with Jim above. I'm all for a certain level of capitalism, but the disparity is just too great right now. What I'm seeing is a lot of middle class having to get used to a new normal, which is much lower living standards and I'm not sure how bad the poor are suffering.. but I would have to guess it's very bad. The government cannot just tax the rich more and expect that to fix our problems though. They have to first make major cuts in government spending and employment. There are way too many government workers who are getting a free ride and don't do s h i t every day.. and then collect a fat paycheck and enjoy amazing benefits.

If the disparity gets to be too great.. you will see an uprising.
In what ways do you opnie that living standards are decreasing?
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