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I've posted extensively on this over on the Colorado forum. Short version here: High-speed rail is not going to be viable in the US with the exception of a few key routes in the Northeast and, maybe, in California. Conventional passenger rail--which was able to achieve nearly 100 mph speeds in many places nearly a century ago--with technology of track, signaling and equipment far inferior to today's-- can be quite viable. We should be aggressively working to rebuild an EXTENSIVE passenger rail network across this country. Why? Because, over the long-term, our current auto-dependent highway and Interstate highway system, along with our air travel system, is NOT going to remain viable. In that sphere, the articles posted above are correct.
And to answer the question above about subsidies for air travel--yes. Air travel has and continues to be massively indirectly and directly subsidized. Airports are usually publicly built, funded often through taxpayer-subsidized bonding, and often taxpayer-subsidized operationally. Numerous services needed for air service--things like weather prediction, air traffic control, etc.--are publicly funded. Much of the airplane technology was and is developed first by the military at taxpayer expense.
Truth is, there is no passenger transportation system in the US, or most anywhere else for that matter, that is not publicly funded in some way. Automobiles and highways in the US are the biggest experiment in socialism ever undertaken on the planet. Ironically, Amtrak (and rail passenger service, in general), the perennial whipping boy for public subsidies, get about the least public subsidy of any form of passenger transportation in the US. Equally ironic, the private rail passenger system in this country before Amtrak, while receiving some public subsidy through postal contracts, was the closest thing to a self-funding passenger transport system in this country--right up until the public subsidy of every competing form of passenger transportation killed it.
Last edited by jazzlover; 01-24-2011 at 11:39 AM..
We can't just go back to 1920. We need to adapt in new and unconsidered ways.
Rail and trolley systems just won't do the job effectively enough, and it is unreasonable to expect all Americans to just pile on top of each other in urban areas.
We can't just go back to 1920. We need to adapt in new and unconsidered ways.
Rail and trolley systems just won't do the job effectively enough, and it is unreasonable to expect all Americans to just pile on top of each other in urban areas.
12 million people do in the NYC region , another 8 million in the Entire Northeast do it daily....this grew by 3 million in the past decade. People don't seem to mind the crushing together , its faster then driving....
Who wants things to return to the 1920's? Millions of people living in cramp poorly maintained fire-traps with no hot water and shared bathrooms? How is that is better than today?
People tend to romantize the past. They think that everything was so much better in the past when in reality they were not. I have elderly relatives that look back at their childhood saying how wonderful it was but then they talk about living in a very small apartment, having no central heat or hot water and sharing a bathroom with another family. Today they live in comfortable homes with multiple bathrooms, central heat and air conditioning and several rooms. The reality is that things were not so good back for most people. Jay
12 million people do in the NYC region , another 8 million in the Entire Northeast do it daily....this grew by 3 million in the past decade. People don't seem to mind the crushing together , its faster then driving....
Good for them, but what about the other 280 million? That is a BIG number...are you gonna put us all in the NE too?
Who wants things to return to the 1920's? Millions of people living in cramp poorly maintained fire-traps with no hot water and shared bathrooms? How is that is better than today?
People tend to romantize the past.
Agree 100%. Even people longing wistfully for the simpler days of the 50s and 60s would be in for a pretty big shock if they were dropped back there, even if they grew up in that era.
It will never work unless it is cheaper than driving or flying. In order for that to happen, we either have to wait for oil prices to sustain a high level for a very long period of time (unlikely) or we have to raise the gas tax (politically unlikely).
Those who think people will use high speed rail without a rise in gas prices are fooling themselves.
Actually it IS cheaper than driving. Say you are going on a 700 mile trip. Say you were going to stay overnight after going 400 miles. And then on the way back, you do the same.
So you have hotel 2 nights ( up and back )
Gas at $ 3.00 gallon.
Aggravation of snow, ice, rain, accidents, ALL slowing you down.
If you take the train. Yes, it's slower BUT the rails seem to run no matter what the weather. You can go for around $ 250. Not to mention you can sleep or read, doze off all you want because you are not driving
The car route : hotel 2 nights $ 150. Gas $ 70 up x 2 = $140 gas. + any delays, aggravation such as traffic jams, accidents, slow going due to road conditions.
Flying is around $ 250-350 for same route.
I would say this mostly involves winter driving for me. Summer or fall I don't mind the long drive via car as much.
We can't just go back to 1920. We need to adapt in new and unconsidered ways.
Rail and trolley systems just won't do the job effectively enough, and it is unreasonable to expect all Americans to just pile on top of each other in urban areas.
I agree.
If rail transport was both time and cost efficient for passenger transport it would still be here today. But it isn't for the most part.
Sure it can work in compact urban areas for commuters, but for many of us, it does no good. Waiting for trains at set times and all that is more inefficient than just getting in the car and going there.
People do romanticize the past but there is a lot about the past that was inefficient compared to today.
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