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Old 03-12-2011, 04:18 PM
 
29,278 posts, read 25,398,627 times
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heres what one study in 2008 found. its pretty much in line with user-id's comment.

PLoS Medicine: Lifetime Medical Costs of Obesity: Prevention No Cure for Increasing Health Expenditure
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:47 PM
Status: "Grains....Grains" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,312 posts, read 10,201,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
One of those rare moments i have to agree with you on the obese. the only problem is they are mostley still here driving up my healthcare costs at this point . i may not live long enough to see the long term effects of them dying off. they also may consume more treating them over their lifetime while they are alive then treating a healthy person who lived those 12 years longer over a life time.
Yeah, its possible that you pay a bit more for health insurance due to an increase in obesity. For health insurance all that matters is the risk profile of the group. But for the governments its life-time costs that matter, so the obesity issue isn't really an issue. Of course, its easier to blame overweight folks for our problems than address the real issues.

Anyhow, I wouldn't have a problem with charging obese people more for health insurance by separating them into their own group. But this isn't going to solve any of our real problems...
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Old 03-13-2011, 12:30 PM
 
Location: New England
11,984 posts, read 8,011,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
One of those rare moments i have to agree with you on the obese. the only problem is they are mostley still here driving up my healthcare costs at this point . i may not live long enough to see the long term effects of them dying off. they also may consume more treating them over their lifetime while they are alive then treating a healthy person who lived those 12 years longer over a life time.

Extreme obesity can shorten people's lives by 12 years - USATODAY.com
Hydrogenated oils and high fructose corn syrup, plus corn, is in evertthing most people eat--margarine, manufactured oils, packaged and canned foods, soda, soda, soda, ice cream, snacks of all kinds, sugar stuff, inorganic cow milk and cheese, you name it. These ingredients on behalf of huge corporate profits are what is making America obese. Now other countries are starting to mimic and manufacture our diet and are getting heart disease and diabetes at unprecedented rates. I'm not sure if it can be blamed on ignorance or laziness (lazy meaning that people don't read labels and could care less). Part of it is definitely that the lower priced junk foods cost less than wholesome foods. It saddens me to see parents piling their grocery carts high with all these foods with their kids in tow. Already we see kids with heart disease and diabetes and of course cancer. Where is our nation headed, what will the health of the next generation be?
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
74,341 posts, read 34,468,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Hydrogenated oils and high fructose corn syrup, plus corn, is in evertthing most people eat--margarine, manufactured oils, packaged and canned foods, soda, soda, soda, ice cream, snacks of all kinds, sugar stuff, inorganic cow milk and cheese, you name it. These ingredients on behalf of huge corporate profits are what is making America obese. Now other countries are starting to mimic and manufacture our diet and are getting heart disease and diabetes at unprecedented rates. I'm not sure if it can be blamed on ignorance or laziness (lazy meaning that people don't read labels and could care less). Part of it is definitely that the lower priced junk foods cost less than wholesome foods. It saddens me to see parents piling their grocery carts high with all these foods with their kids in tow. Already we see kids with heart disease and diabetes and of course cancer. Where is our nation headed, what will the health of the next generation be?
HFC is cheaper than cane sugar. There is a comeback though of cane sugar products but the price is higher. How many can afford the higher price for the health benefits though ?

Corn is used to quickly fatten cattle before slaughter. Isn't it just logical that it would do the same to humans when taken in bigger quantities ?
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:28 AM
 
14,085 posts, read 11,709,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
One of those rare moments i have to agree with you on the obese. the only problem is they are mostley still here driving up my healthcare costs at this point . i may not live long enough to see the long term effects of them dying off. they also may consume more treating them over their lifetime while they are alive then treating a healthy person who lived those 12 years longer over a life time.

Extreme obesity can shorten people's lives by 12 years - USATODAY.com

Yes, this is what I was going to say. There was a book written about centenarians called The Blue Zones, which studies 4 regions around the world where disproportionate numbers of people lived to age 100. They found several common lifestyle factors:

--plant based diet. Not necessarily strictly vegetarian, but meat/poultry was a once in a while treat, not an everyday thing. Minimal processed foods.
--moderate/low alcohol consumption. Most never smoked.
--population got regular exercise
--regular religious/spiritual practice
--community oriented culture

They also found that typical centenarians did NOT use that much health care beause their healthy habis (and, to some degree, genetics) prevented them from getting diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc, in the first place.

Amazon.com: The Blue Zones: Lessons for Living Longer From the People Who've Lived the Longest (9781426207556): Dan Buettner: Books



So, contrary to what user_id thinks, I didn't just go off half cocked.
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:32 AM
 
14,085 posts, read 11,709,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
heres what one study in 2008 found. its pretty much in line with user-id's comment.

PLoS Medicine: Lifetime Medical Costs of Obesity: Prevention No Cure for Increasing Health Expenditure

I also mentioned heart disease, cancer, & high blood pressure as expensive diseases to treat, most of which are completely preventable. The article in my original post also mentions this (if you and user_id had bothered to read it...which you obviously didn't).

I do NOT make unsubstantiated statements about stuff.
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Old 03-14-2011, 04:04 AM
 
29,278 posts, read 25,398,627 times
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i cant say either way as im no expert. i only saw a few articles with some studies just because i have no idea. . we all know how studies can be manipulated. they always find these russian areas where these old folks live on vodka and the most un-balanced fat ladden diets and live longer then anyonje else.

Last edited by mathjak107; 03-14-2011 at 05:31 AM..
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Old 03-14-2011, 09:53 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,172 posts, read 2,213,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VBeachRon View Post
I personally would like the cuts to start with GOV. EMPLOYEE'S first

Do we really need the amount of people we use to

Maybe we could start with 10% and in 2 month's re-evaluate.

It seems every time we hear of cuts it starts in police and fire dept.
I am with you there. To do that we need to cut programs though. I do not have a problem with that too. There are some programs that actually may belong tot he states instead of the federal government.

You cannot cut people if you keep programs that do need programs to manage them.

There is where the debate is. People fight to keep programs and there is a lot arguments on which programs have to go. Go and ask an educator if it is OK to delete the federal education department and you will see what he will tell you. How about medical care? The same you will hear. How about the EPA? We can go on and on. All the people that work for those and many other programs will fight to keep their jobs and will tell you how important their programs are for the nation, take care.
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:38 PM
Status: "Grains....Grains" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,312 posts, read 10,201,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
I also mentioned heart disease, cancer, & high blood pressure as expensive diseases to treat, most of which are completely preventable. The article in my original post also mentions this (if you and user_id had bothered to read it...which you obviously didn't).

I do NOT make unsubstantiated statements about stuff.
Sure you do, you're citing an article that doesn't really address the questions you think it does. To say it again, claiming that some percentage of disease X are preventable with life-style changes tells you nothing about the over-all cost picture as disease X will also shorten life-span.

You guys like to speak as if "healthy" people all die in their sleep and incur no costs in their old age, but the opposite is true. Old age becomes expensive and the longer you life the most costs there are. Hence preventing disease could actually increase life-time medical costs, not lower them.

It is the life-time medical costs that matter to the government, not the short-term costs used to determine things like health insurance rates.
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Ohio
10,406 posts, read 5,752,160 times
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Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
There are some programs that actually may belong tot he states instead of the federal government.
Some? There are hundreds.

Oblama just created an agency to oversee nutrition in schools. You already have the local school board, plus the state school board, and some States have county school boards. You don't need another level of bureaucracy for that.

You can disband Housing & Urban Development. You don't need it. If the people of a State want subsidized housing, then it is up to them to decide, as well to decide how it should be administered, who is eligible and how should be funded.

Food stamps, you don't need those. States can run more effective and efficient programs. Medicaid, you don't need that either. You don't need a Department of Education or a Department of Veteran's Affairs. You can eliminate the Department of Transportation as well, and since the FAA and NTSB are separate agencies, you can do away with them. You don't need OSHA. Each State also has its own OSHA program. You can either have a federal EPA, or State EPAs, but having both is ridiculous.

You can get rid of the TSA as well. They'll have a half a dozen security guards on duty at a 125,000 sq ft shopping mall that sells for $4 Million but the airlines can't manage to put even one plain-clothes security guard on a $65 Million Boeing 757.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
There is where the debate is. People fight to keep programs and there is a lot arguments on which programs have to go. Go and ask an educator if it is OK to delete the federal education department and you will see what he will tell you.
Why would you even consider asking an educator? You have people who are unbiased make the decisions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
I also mentioned heart disease, cancer, & high blood pressure as expensive diseases to treat, most of which are completely preventable.
High blood pressure is preventable, but heart disease and cancer are hereditary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
The US is not dramatically more obese than other countries that spend much less on health care.
You need to get out of the US at least once in your life. You will not find as many porkers waddling in other countries as you do the US, and even those countries which might border on obesity, like Germany, don't have problems with Type II Diabetes.
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