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Old 08-05-2011, 07:06 PM
 
Location: NJ and Florida
9,455 posts, read 2,664,172 times
Reputation: 2798
Our banks are in trouble. I have cash on hand just in case I can't get my hands on any cash from my accounts. It is wise for everyone to do this.
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Old 08-06-2011, 01:23 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,231 posts, read 9,888,206 times
Reputation: 4006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
No its not difficult. You were just wrong.
What you mean to say is that the distorted claim that you created and I did not make is wrong...what I said was perfectly correct.

You are tripping all over the word "capital", a word that has numerous meanings depending on the context. The fact that I'm talking about capital owners being exposed to inflation, it should be clear that I'm primary talking about the owners of financial capital and not real capital. But you are simply uninterested in understanding others, you just want to rant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
as I keep saying, most of the very wealthy have assets that have immunity from inflation.
Who cares? Whether or not the wealthy have some assets that traditionally are preserved under inflation has nothing to do with whether they will be, as a whole, benefited or disadvantaged by an increase in the rate of inflation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Its the middle and lower classes that are now paying higher food and energy prices that have to worry because their salaries and liquid funds form such a large part of their worth.
Ugh....back to this. When you have real, that is embedded, inflation wages go up with other costs. The fact that you keep implying otherwise means you don't understand inflation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
You said every one of them.
Nope....the claims you are suggesting I made are just bizarre, again you're not even trying to understand matters. Anyhow, no skin off my bones, you will continue to repeat what you read in some book and not listen to anybody. Good luck...I won't waste more time on this.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:03 AM
 
12,479 posts, read 7,818,711 times
Reputation: 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
What you mean to say is that the distorted claim that you created and I did not make is wrong...what I said was perfectly correct.
What I said was correct. What you said was completely wrong. You just keep changing it. You can't edit it out, and anyone can go back and read it. You said all capital suffers from inflation which is completely wrong.

Quote:
You are tripping all over the word "capital", a word that has numerous meanings depending on the context. The fact that I'm talking about capital owners being exposed to inflation, it should be clear that I'm primary talking about the owners of financial capital and not real capital. But you are simply uninterested in understanding others, you just want to rant.
No it doesn't. Isn't your definition of capital a bit "vacuous" ROTFLMAS

That is like saying apes are human because both humans and apes are primates. Only a monkey holding his tail does not know the difference.

Quote:
Who cares? Whether or not the wealthy have some assets that traditionally are preserved under inflation has nothing to do with whether they will be, as a whole, benefited or disadvantaged by an increase in the rate of inflation.
Right, which was what I said, again. Inflation does not injure the wealthy. That is what you said aka "owners of capital".

Quote:
Ugh....back to this. When you have real, that is embedded, inflation wages go up with other costs. The fact that you keep implying otherwise means you don't understand inflation.
Ugh is right. Cost of living raises typically lag inflation. You must have never had a job. If there is 10% inflation, the wage earner will usually get the adjustment after a year of inflation taxes. If inflation keeps up at that pace, he is losing 10% of his wealth every year.

There is no implication with you. You simply don't understand it. Home owners, people who hold that form of capital, actually benefited from inflation because their asset increased in price while they often had some or all of their loan liability fixed. Wage earners buying into it were transferring their wealth to those who held that form of capital. And before you refrain to mention that banks lost on inflation, don't worry, their profits covered the cost, and then they had their stooges triple A rate them to sell them to sovereign funds, and gulp, retirement funds for the working class who got wiped out.

Quote:
Nope....the claims you are suggesting I made are just bizarre, again you're not even trying to understand matters. Anyhow, no skin off my bones, you will continue to repeat what you read in some book and not listen to anybody. Good luck...I won't waste more time on this.
You want me to explain inflation for ya? The number of your words, obfuscations, and disinformation keeps growing while still having no value. I sure hope no one listens to you. You can't tell them anything of value.

Last edited by gwynedd1; 08-06-2011 at 10:18 AM..
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,231 posts, read 9,888,206 times
Reputation: 4006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
You said all capital suffers from inflation which is completely wrong.
Nope, never did I suggest this was the case. And yes, my writing is there to see, go read it.

Anyhow, its obvious that you're not reading anything that I'm stating, again you just want to rant. That's fine...you can do that. Have fun.
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Old 08-06-2011, 12:49 PM
 
12,479 posts, read 7,818,711 times
Reputation: 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Nope, never did I suggest this was the case. And yes, my writing is there to see, go read it.
Inflation is not a "tax on the working people", it is a tax on capital owners which the "working people" own very little of.

Capital owners, including banks, don't want inflation. Inflation erodes the value of their capital and reduces the real about of interest they receive. On the other hand, debtors (the working people) are benefited by reduced real interest rates.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/20305048-post19.html
Yeah you did. There it is, and its still wrong.

Quote:
Anyhow, its obvious that you're not reading anything that I'm stating, again you just want to rant. That's fine...you can do that. Have fun.
I read it. I just found it vacuous.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,231 posts, read 9,888,206 times
Reputation: 4006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Yeah you did. There it is, and its still wrong.
umm....no where in that quote do I suggest that "all capital suffers from inflation". Apparently you are having issues understanding elementary logic, a claim about an aggregate (a statistical generalization) is not the same as a universal generalization. My claim is about an aggregate, namely all capital owned by the "top", stating that as a whole their capital will suffer from inflation is simply not the same as stating that all capital will suffer from inflation.
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Old 08-08-2011, 09:28 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
7,591 posts, read 4,076,925 times
Reputation: 6007
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
It took me years to sort through needless&verbose economic mambo jumbo (explaining little or nothing conceptually to boot) to come up with a condensed essence (as I see it) of credit based capitalist economies, monetary systems & banking. Here is a very simplistic "no population/economy growth" sketch of "how monetary system works".
--------------------------------------------
Let's imagine a closed society consisting of you (the banker), state (the enforcer) and me (a generic wage slave). You (the banker) are granted exclusive rights by the hidden powers of Universe to create new money for our mini economy, an enforcer (state) makes sure that me (a generic wage slave) have to work to get the money in order to keep myself alive & fed ("how to" is not important in this sketch).

Imagine you (the banker) "create" $100 and loan $100 to me under a "small" stipulation - me paying you $105 back, if payments can't be done I promise the banker to give up agreed upon fruits of my labor and/or property. Where would I get eixtra $5 if I have no authority (under penalty of death) to create new money? Yup, you (a banker) would loan me another freshly minted $100 bill at 5% interest, I will pay you $105 of the old debt and I would owe you another $105 (while having only $95 on me), as we can see, a snow ball of debt is getting bigger and bigger with every "loan cycle". But simple paper/money debt is of no value to anyone (including bankers). Paper money debt got to be exchangeable for the real goods & services. In order to "encourage" me to be "productive" (a.k.a. to feed a banker&enforcer) I have to be forced to work for money, again, details of "How to" are unimportant here, we all know it can be done
I can't say I fully agree with this. Where would the other $5 interest come from? Well, it would come from the future value dog your work, quite obviously. You get paid a wage for your work, right? Well, some of that will go to cover the extra $5 you owe. Sure, youcan play the game of borrowing more to cover your borrowings, but I can't stop you from making stupid decisions.

Money is just a convenient way of facilitating the exchange of goods and services. They way central banks REALLY get you is via inflation. When they expand the money supply faster than required by real economic output in order to facilitate federal borrowing, they are imposing a massive tax on you. That's what inflation really is: a government tax.
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