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Old 09-07-2011, 09:34 PM
 
3,546 posts, read 3,037,443 times
Reputation: 3200
Quote:
Originally Posted by cee4 View Post

If sitting at a desk, analyzing reports, moving money around, selling products for other people is hard work than I guess most of the Americans in this country are working extra extra extra hard

People in America forgot the definition of hard work. There is reason why very little is made in this country.
Best lines so far. But I'll keep fishing for more.
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Old 09-07-2011, 09:49 PM
 
3,546 posts, read 3,037,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1208 View Post
It's the 'new rich' that drive hummers and bugatti's and stuff like that, who are not in the top, super rich class. doesn't make them down to earth or humble, just because they drive old cars, instead I think they just percieve us all as tiny pissants who are not worth impressing. they still try to impress each other.
Goodness, the really good ones will not stop!!
Very, very nice point, I completely need to take notes here.

I've always felt that this "millionaire-next-door" phenomenon, so dear to American ear is nothing but a big fat hypocritical fit.

It boggles my mind how "folksy" Americans get so misty-eyed over the filthy rich guy who lives in a folksy house and drives a folksy beaten pick-up truck, in a worn-out T-shirt...because "he is not trying to impress anybody". They love this guy so much because he spared them of the fate of being reminded that someone else was a much bigger Mother F-er than they could ever dream of becoming. Not only did he spare them but he even threw a dreamy carrot their way: given he looks and acts so much like them, that means they too one day could achieve...oh, yeah.

Seriously? ...

No wonder the economic elites in this country make pure mush out of people's brains; they are just too easy to manipulate.
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Old 09-07-2011, 11:43 PM
 
4,554 posts, read 3,923,069 times
Reputation: 5128
Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
Goodness, the really good ones will not stop!!
Very, very nice point, I completely need to take notes here.

I've always felt that this "millionaire-next-door" phenomenon, so dear to American ear is nothing but a big fat hypocritical fit.

It boggles my mind how "folksy" Americans get so misty-eyed over the filthy rich guy who lives in a folksy house and drives a folksy beaten pick-up truck, in a worn-out T-shirt...because "he is not trying to impress anybody". They love this guy so much because he spared them of the fate of being reminded that someone else was a much bigger Mother F-er than they could ever dream of becoming. Not only did he spare them but he even threw a dreamy carrot their way: given he looks and acts so much like them, that means they too one day could achieve...oh, yeah.

Seriously? ...

No wonder the economic elites in this country make pure mush out of people's brains; they are just too easy to manipulate.
Yes seriously.

I know several multimillionares. All are old.

It's not that hard to save (And gain from investing) $16,600 per year for 60 years... (1 mil)

Check out the miracle of compound interest some time.

Now as I said, I know several... 3 over or around 80, one in his 60's...

AND... if we count houses... several more who break the 1 mil mark.

None of them live flashy.

Facts are facts, no matter how much you might wish to disbelieve to excuse yourself...
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Old 09-08-2011, 07:39 AM
 
2,515 posts, read 897,497 times
Reputation: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
newonecoming, It means more when millions are not QUITTING the work force, and thus not being counted.
There are a lot of people that are still getting checks that are not being counted as being unemployed. Lets see if you have a published unemployment rate of 9.8% and you are writing checks for an unemployment rate of over 17% over 1/3 of the people getting check aren't unemployed. They have permanently left the work force they just don't know it yet. They are still looking for work but will never find it and so aren't unemployed they are out of the work force.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
No longer looking for work is what you are classified when you run out of Unemployment.
Yes but... see what I just wrote.

Last edited by newonecoming2; 09-08-2011 at 08:32 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-08-2011, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Chicago
4,139 posts, read 4,478,481 times
Reputation: 4203
Quote:
Originally Posted by k374 View Post
I doubt rich people are whiners, and I doubt rich people are unhappy as well... you know that phrase "money can't buy happiness"? well, it was invented to make the poor feel better.

I am not truly "rich" by any stretch of the imagination but I do have a 6 figure net worth which in the US places me at least in the top 20% of households (although when I file my taxes the IRS says I am in the top 5% since I am a 1 person household), made it to this stage from nothing, nada, zilch..I had nothing but the clothes on my back when I came to CA 14 yrs ago. But money has given me a huge number of options to enjoy my life. It has certainly made my life 100x more interesting.

If I had 10 times the money I have now I would definitely make my life 10x more interesting that much I am absolutely certain about. So money DOES buy happiness, at least it has for me

Typing this as I sit browsing the net on the 52nd floor of a hotel by the bay here in Rio de Janiero, one of the most beautiful vistas on the planet Yes, money does not buy happiness LOL!

Another thing I would like to add is that I have worked very hard for my success, in the USA that is richly rewarded... hard work is rewarded, so if I can do it anyone else can as well. The beauty of the United States has been that a person can start with nothing and wind up with everything if he works hard and has smarts. This concept should be preserved, it is what makes the USA as great as it is in the world. We should not allow the likes of Obama to try to implement the failed socialist practice that exists in Europe.
I hear you, but many on this thread won't believe it.... It's so much easier to be a victim and blame others (the "rich," the govt., the banks, the schools, etc.) for their lack of success... BLAME is the difference between the succesful and the unsuccessful. I also started with zilch... poor, abusive family, crappy schools, crime-filled neighborhood, death... etc... etc... Everyone has a story. You make choices in life.

But, like many others, I worked my butt off, sacrificed, took big risks, and delayed gratification so that I can now live the life I want. The majority of millionaires in this country are self-made, first generation and have made major sacrifices to get where they are. The majority are not trust-fund babies, but many are innovative, driven, success focused, and hard working. Those are qualities that should be admired. Those are qualities that are good for America.

These facts have been well documented in many studies, including "The Millionaire Next Door," and every highly sucessful person I know (and I know quite a few) fit the bill. The majority follow the law, but they know how to play the game (e.g. taking advantage of legal business tax credits, pricing their products/services at the right margin, keeping their costs low, etc.). And if the game changes, most will find another legal way to make and invest money because they have the success qualities. And they know money is a tool to a better life for themselves and others.
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Old 09-08-2011, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Chicago
4,139 posts, read 4,478,481 times
Reputation: 4203
Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
Goodness, the really good ones will not stop!!
Very, very nice point, I completely need to take notes here.

I've always felt that this "millionaire-next-door" phenomenon, so dear to American ear is nothing but a big fat hypocritical fit.

It boggles my mind how "folksy" Americans get so misty-eyed over the filthy rich guy who lives in a folksy house and drives a folksy beaten pick-up truck, in a worn-out T-shirt...because "he is not trying to impress anybody". They love this guy so much because he spared them of the fate of being reminded that someone else was a much bigger Mother F-er than they could ever dream of becoming. Not only did he spare them but he even threw a dreamy carrot their way: given he looks and acts so much like them, that means they too one day could achieve...oh, yeah.

Seriously? ...

No wonder the economic elites in this country make pure mush out of people's brains; they are just too easy to manipulate.
There are worse people to emulate. I'll take understated Warren Buffett or Steve Jobs over Britney Spears or Michael Vick any day. I have no problem with people aspiring to be the successful "rich guy" who doesn't flaunt his wealth.
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:12 AM
 
4,415 posts, read 3,468,088 times
Reputation: 11960
Quote:
Here is something for you to think about. The last numbers I have comparing unemployment rate and payout are for Nov of 2007 and Nov of 2010. Doing a bit of Math gets you a pay out for over 17% unemployment rate in Nov of 2010 and a clamed unemployment rate of 9.8%
You really have to use a lot of smoke and mirrors to do what you have just done. I'd rather determine unemployment by more direct means. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics keeps figures on the unemployment rate. For the last two or three months its been remarkably stable (too high) at 9.1%

Current Population Survey (CPS)

BLS has definitions for determining who is unemployed and who is not. In order to be unemployed one must: 1. Be without a job; and 2. Be looking for a job by either filling out applications or sending out resumes.

How the Government Measures Unemployment

If you don't want to believe those numbers, I have another reputable private source for you to consult. Its the Gallup Poll. Their private survey suggests that unemployment is currently 8.9%. More interestingly, Gallup does highlight a problem with underemployment. Underemployment is when people work jobs below their skill level or work part time because a full time job is not available. This is what I think is the real problem in this country. In fact, underemployment is at 18%.

Gallup.Com - Daily News, Polls, Public Opinion on Government, Politics, Economics, Management

Quote:
During the Great depression we had Glass Stegal. Now we have crony capitalism. I believe that the numbers then were accurate and that the numbers now are fiction.
A "belief" and reality are not the same thing. Why should I accept the notion that unemployment numbers were accurate during the Great Depression and "made up" now? Things are much more visible today than they were seven years ago. We have a huge news media to expose lies by government. We have hundreds of people working for the Bureau of Labor Statistics. I think if there were fraud involved in these calculations, at least one employee would "blow the whistle". I can believe that all of American was part of a grand conspiracy by international bankers, but that doesn't make it so.


Quote:
What I want to see is a flat tax for the bottom 99% and a tax rate on the top 1% based on the total debt in the US. Keep the total debt below 125% of GDP and the top would have the same tax rate as everyone else. Let the total debt get up to 200% of GDP then the top tax rate would be functionally 100%.
I read a book once called "Innumeracy". The author basically demonstrated that Americans as a whole were so ignorant of numbers and mathematics that it lead us to absurd conclusions. One of those "absurd conclusions" is that a flat tax would be some sort of "panacea" that would lead to the government raising more revenue. A flat tax on the bottom 99% of taxpayers would lead to our country having to end social security, end medicare, and severely curtail defense expenditures, regardless of foreign threats we might face. The wealthiest one percent of this country may be very wealthy, but they wouldn't have enough revenue to compensate for all the professional people (doctors, lawyers, engineers, and small businessmen) who would be paying a much smaller tax.


Quote:
We have a mix of inflation and deflation, stagflation high unemployment rates etc. I want what you are taking as it must be real good stuff In the great depression we got Glass Steagal now we have the repeal. We need reform yes we do. I would prefer to look towards polititions that say the truth rather than what they think will make us happy. We in another depression, that is the truth, the first one after the great one.
Inflation rates are averaging about 3 to 4 percent annually right now. That's even when you consider the cost increases in energy prices. That is not an abnormal situation. A 3% inflation rate is regarded by most economists as optimal for economic growth. I am not sure what your current job situation is. Perhaps, you have been laid off. Perhaps a family member has. Someone once said the definition of a Recession is when "a neighbor is laid off". The definition of a Depression is when "you are laid off".

I don't want to suggest that the high unemployment rates we see now are minor or inconsequential. My own son has had trouble getting more than part time work. However, this is not the cataclysm that the 1930's were. In addition to higher unemployment rates, people back than had no social safety net of any kind to fall back on. There was no unemployment compensation. There was no direct public assistance to individuals. There was no Medicaid. Finally, there were no food stamps. Comparing our present situation to the 1930's is disingenuous and causes me to question the entire veracity of a poster.
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Moscow
1,277 posts, read 1,253,826 times
Reputation: 1343
Quote:
Originally Posted by newonecoming2 View Post
Assumption number one, a rich person is capable of getting what they want. Assumption number two, the Rockefellers have been spending heavily on education for a long time. Assumption number three you donít go from being good at business to being bad at philamprothy. Conclusion the state of the school system in Detroit represents what The Rockefellers want.
Ah, Hanlons Razor why must you be so accurate?
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

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Old 09-08-2011, 09:56 AM
 
3,546 posts, read 3,037,443 times
Reputation: 3200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post
Yes seriously.

I know several multimillionares. All are old.

It's not that hard to save (And gain from investing) $16,600 per year for 60 years... (1 mil)

Check out the miracle of compound interest some time.

Now as I said, I know several... 3 over or around 80, one in his 60's...

AND... if we count houses... several more who break the 1 mil mark.

None of them live flashy.

Facts are facts, no matter how much you might wish to disbelieve to excuse yourself...
And you didn't understand zilch from my argument.

(Beside, if you argue that people who are seriously rich made their fortunes by saving and cutting coupons, you are NOT OK. That aside...)

I do not care how they made their fortune. The act of driving around in a beaten pick-up truck or whatever other statements of "folksiness" while RICH - is hypocritical and nauseating. Not endearing.

PS: 1 million dollars in assets today is SO far from being rich, it is not even funny.

Last edited by syracusa; 09-08-2011 at 10:13 AM..
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:12 AM
 
3,546 posts, read 3,037,443 times
Reputation: 3200
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1 View Post
There are worse people to emulate. I'll take understated Warren Buffett or Steve Jobs over Britney Spears or Michael Vick any day. I have no problem with people aspiring to be the successful "rich guy" who doesn't flaunt his wealth.
I have a problem with people having no other God in life but aspiring to be rich and successful. Whether they plan on flaunting it or not.
How about aspiring to be financially secure and content? There is a difference.

If you think that a rich guy's statement of "humility" via his consumption choices automatically makes him a good guy - you are just plain naive and easy to manipulate. That's exactly why such millionaires next door do it.

I have a family income approaching 200,000 and no debts whatsoever.
I drive a used, 7000$ car with 100,000+ miles on it. I do not intend to change it until it drops dead in the dust. Does that make me a wonderful person just because I could conceivably afford more car but I choose not to? No. I drive that kind of car because I don't care about cars and I want to use my money elsewhere, such as annual vacations to Europe.
Is that flashy? Does that now make me an ostentatious b**ch?

Yes, I love Warren Buffet. I just think he is an extraordinary man. I love the way he looks, the way he talks, the way he sounds - I just get a good vibe about this guy. It's in his eyes.

However, I will not form my opinion about him based on the consumption choices he makes. He would not impress me with an amazingly luxurious residence just like he would not impress me with his choice of driving a beaten pick up truck. In fact, I would fine the latter gesture to be highly irritating because of the inherent hypocrisy. I would need to know more. Much more. All I know about him is his demeanor - and this I like. That's all I can say.

I would expect the guy to live in a very nice, high quality residence that meets all of his needs (not whims) just like I would expect him to drive a solid, high quality car. Neither flashy nor humble.
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