Neato public pension angle - sick time payout (percentage, contractor, company)

[Boompa]

Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon

The ABQ Journal requires a login, so I can't read the article.

However, if half the states allow people to cash out a career's worth of unused sick days to receive a measly 25 days of pay, I'm fine with that. It's hardly the "mini-lottery winnings" you describe in your opening post.

Bashing Public Employees is just so stylish these days. Use it or lose it still costs more than buying back unused because you have to replace the user at overtime.

[slackjaw]

Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon

However, if half the states allow people to cash out a career's worth of unused sick days to receive a measly 25 days of pay, I'm fine with that. It's hardly the "mini-lottery winnings" you describe in your opening post.

Was referring to the averages from article, Scottsdale avg 24k is a mini-lottery to me.

Originally Posted by Boompa

Bashing Public Employees is just so stylish these days. Use it or lose it still costs more than buying back unused because you have to replace the user at overtime.

What are you talking about, I've not bashed public employees at all, I'm bashing this system of thought where it is acceptable that they will abuse their sick time privs unless offered a cash bribe not too. I specifically stated:

I'm not bashing the public sector employees here (my wife is one) they are playing the cards dealt to them and have every right to

You seem to be very good at jumping to conclusions (tea party? really?) about whatever jumps into your head.

[Boompa]

Originally Posted by slackjaw

Was referring to the averages from article, Scottsdale avg 24k is a mini-lottery to me.


What are you talking about, I've not bashed public employees at all, I'm bashing this system of thought where it is acceptable that they will abuse their sick time privs unless offered a cash bribe not too. I specifically stated:

I'm not bashing the public sector employees here (my wife is one) they are playing the cards dealt to them and have every right to

You seem to be very good at jumping to conclusions (tea party? really?) about whatever jumps into your head.

I'm not bashing Public Employees but _____________________ I will now go on bashing Public Employees. Getting people not to take off saves you hiring more people or paying time and a half to replace them

[Green Irish Eyes]

Originally Posted by slackjaw

Was referring to the averages from article, Scottsdale avg 24k is a mini-lottery to me.

I understand. However, as I stated upthread, not every public employee gets that kind of payout (I certainly won't). I imagine that the "norm" is something closer to the 25 days rather than $24k.

[gardener34]

The pension spiking is what gets most people. There is a big abuse of pensions here in the state of IL. Chicago tribune just did a huge expose on it. It is atrocious. Of course IL politicians and unions bosses have elevated this to an artform - the loopholes they have added to benefit themselves alone (the average state worker generally will not benefit from these) are amazing.
BTW: most corporations how have melded the vacation days and sick days into one entity called PTO or paid time off.

[slackjaw]

Originally Posted by Boompa

I'm not bashing Public Employees but _____________________ I will now go on bashing Public Employees.

I have a problem with the policies not the people and have tried to make that clear, but apparently you are incapable of bringing anything worthwhile to the discussion other than attempting to throw silly political labels at people you disagree with (Tea Party? Really?) and other nonsensical drivel. I'm sorry you can't see the difference, but I can't help you.

Getting people not to take off saves you hiring more people or paying time and a half to replace them

Only if you accept people calling in sick when they aren't, which I don't and apparently you do.

[Mightyqueen801]

I'm a public employee, and we don't get paid for sick time not taken. If you are out for five days straight, you need a doctor's note to come back to work. If you are out for two many occasions--not just days--you may be called on the carpet to explain your excessive absences.

There is a benefit for those who have taken NO sick time--you may sell back a portion of your next year's vacation, and the money is spread over the year's paychecks. Of course, with the War on Public Employees, some people don't like that, either, and are doing the "use-it-or-lose-it" chant. However--what if you CAN'T use it? In my agency, they've pared down permanent staff to the bones, not replacing people who retire or leave. This, of course, is a measure taken by the politicians who run us to make things look good for them. As a result, you may plan a vacation only to be told you can't take the time off because a project is due or someone just dreamed up some new report that the pols want asap. Are you supposed to then just LOSE those days that you've not been permitted to schedule that year? How many people are going to stay in such positions if this becomes the case?

[11thHour]

Originally Posted by slackjaw

If I had an employee who used their exact number of allocated sick days every year I'd start demanding proof from a doctor to use them, not just give them cash to not lie and abuse it when they aren't sick. If you are paying public sector employees for both vacation days and sick days that are really vacation days it is far too much time allocated to miss work. My wife gets 18 days of vacation and 12 sick days, do we really need to have employees with six weeks off per year in the public sector?

Yes. It should be standard by law for all workers private and public. We lag most of the developed nations in this regard.

I'm a public employee, and here we can accrue up to 240 hours, then it must be used or you lose it. Also double-dipping is prohibited, ie retiring from one segment, taking a pension, then working for another public segment. In general, I've noticed they don't seem to care if you have a lot of occurrences, as long as you have the time to cover it. Take time off uncovered, and you're fired.

Interestingly at my last job, non-gov't, I worked in a safety-sensitive position that required by law for one to be in good health. There, they had no hard limit to how many occurrences one could have. And if you ran out of time, it was just unpaid, but you kept your job.

[ringwise]

Originally Posted by houstonlibrarian

Here's the rub.

If that person knew that he wouldn't get paid out for the sick time, he would have called in sick a hell of a lot more times than he did I am sure.

So, let's assume over 30 years he probably was getting 10 sick days per year. That is 300 days. If he only called in sick 2 times per year, he still has 240 days to be paid out at his 40/hr or whatever he makes.

But then you have another co-worker who calls in sick ten times per year. That means they have, in essence, worked 240 less days than the guy that just got paid out for his sick time.

How is that fair to the person that never calls in sick?
You are basically encouraging people to make sure they take all of their sick time. Otherwise you will end up working two weeks more per year than your co-worker for no benefit.

I don't think it should be paid out at maximum salary. They should maybe give you 25% of what your salary is for each sick hour. Even 20%.
Some incentive to not call in all the time.
You are a good, solid, dependable worker....should have something to show for being a better worker than the person that calls in sick whenever they accumulate enough sick time to do so.

I don't consider a worker "better" for coming in when they're sick, just so they can cash out. By coming in sick, they are probably less productive & contaminate everyone they work with.

[CosmicWizard]

As a tremendously healthy person who rarely uses even a few sick time hrs a year, my viewpoint is that sick time is a REWARD to those who don't live a healthy lifestyle. The idiots who eat McBurgers and hang out on the couch get rewarded with paid time off for their unhealthy lifestyle, while those of us who take care of ourselves spend more time on the job.

My former employer in Virginia Beach had the right idea. They made no differentiation between Vacation days and sick time. Paid time off was simply referred to as PTO. If you took care of yourself and stayed healthy your PTO was vacation time, and if you failed to do that, your PTO was essentially sick time. Furthermore, you could only roll over a max of 80 hrs into the next year...use it or lose it! For those employees experiencing a legitimate sickness that required a longer recovery time, other employees could donate some of their un-used time to cover them. The whole thing worked very nicely. BTW, this was a private corporation and not a government agency.