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Old 08-22-2012, 04:59 AM
 
Location: England
26,273 posts, read 8,391,460 times
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Tipping in America is a strange thing to foreigners. Different amounts are expected by different groups. It has evolved so the government even want a share.

There is something of the surf and the master about it. I observe servers and wait-staff when I visit America. The pasted on smile.

I believe the staff should be paid a proper, liveable amount. Not having to depend on the whims of the people they serve. If that puts up the price of using the various restaurants etc, so be it.

I know this isn't the way most American's want it. But, you're brought up in this system. Only an outsider can see how ludicrous it is.

I mean no offence, but reading threads like this, just make me shake my head how tied up and upset people get about this subject.
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:36 AM
 
5,190 posts, read 4,825,548 times
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it certainly is master and serf type territory.

The girl or boy must grovel enough so that they get paid, whilst the owners are laughing all the way to the bank!
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,155 posts, read 26,086,216 times
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I personally hate the tipping system however I've been on both ends......as a waitress/bartender and restaurant owner so see all sides.
I will tell you this.....the ones that would scream the most if the system was changed would be those that work under it.
Sure, there are some that make the minimum but, by and large, they pull in much more than they would otherwise.
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Old 08-22-2012, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Nesconset, NY
2,202 posts, read 4,308,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
something that surprises me is that many businesses take tips into account when deciding on the wage rate.

isn't this a little unfair to the worker and customer?

ie: the worker gets a reduced wage, so in effect loses his 'tip' ; and the customer, effectively has to subsidise the wages.

yet, the owner gets all the profit!

something wrong here, right?
Yes and No. The employee is free to decline the job if they don't accept the terms. Many occupational wages are based on commission only. You're assuming the employers profits exist at all wage levels, this is not always the case. The customer is subsidizing wages through the price they pay, as well as, tipping (you're assuming customer costs remain the same regardless of wages paid).
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:26 PM
 
3,695 posts, read 4,972,225 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
Tipping in America is a strange thing to foreigners. Different amounts are expected by different groups. It has evolved so the government even want a share.

There is something of the surf and the master about it. I observe servers and wait-staff when I visit America. The pasted on smile.

I believe the staff should be paid a proper, liveable amount. Not having to depend on the whims of the people they serve. If that puts up the price of using the various restaurants etc, so be it.

I know this isn't the way most American's want it. But, you're brought up in this system. Only an outsider can see how ludicrous it is.

I mean no offence, but reading threads like this, just make me shake my head how tied up and upset people get about this subject.
The trouble is minimun wage is considered a livable amount. So with no tips that is all they would get. With tips they have a chance to earn much more.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:30 PM
 
3,695 posts, read 4,972,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
it certainly is master and serf type territory.

The girl or boy must grovel enough so that they get paid, whilst the owners are laughing all the way to the bank!

Not really. Without tips they only earn $7.25 an hour. With tips it can be unlimited. In short take away tips and all that will happen is the cost of meals might increase, and the worker gets shafted.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:54 PM
 
3,695 posts, read 4,972,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post

therefore, a successful tipped waitress would be of high value to a restaurant - let's say the tip is split 50/50 and she gets the $7.50hr minimum, that would seem about right.

how about that idea?
That would be worse than the current law! The current law means that the most the restaurant can take is $5.12. So lets say she got $20 in tips for an hour. She could have a wage of $22.13 for that hour.

With your idea it would be $7.25+10-$17.25 and the resutrant would get $10 extra bucks!

Under the current system she keeps all tips after $5.12 and you could easily earn more than $5.00 worth of tips in an hour.

I think you are assuming that the waitress earns very little in tips vs. wage when in fact the tips are a huge part of her pay.

Here is a thread of people who work in the field:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...=1006042205136

Last edited by chirack; 08-22-2012 at 02:05 PM..
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:29 PM
 
106,001 posts, read 107,976,655 times
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its silly to keep arguing this. if kenneth doesnt get it and wants to believe his own bull sh*t then you wont convince him of otherwise.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:19 PM
 
3,695 posts, read 4,972,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
not really, because it still doesn't account for the fact that the employer only has to pay 2.50/hr.

what if you are doing the quiet tuesday aft. shift that brings in few tips? - you will lose this because the boss will use some of them to push your wage up to the minimum.

care to justify this one?
Depends on the state. Some states you must pay 7.25 an hour no matter what and all tips go to the waiter. Others not, but only down to $2.13 at worse. The boss can only use $5.12 worth at most.

The justification is that because waitresses is bring tips they can earn much more than minium wage. Still a low paying job but a fast food person with no tip would earn only about $15,080 a year. A waitress in a dinner should earn much more than that.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:22 PM
 
3,695 posts, read 4,972,225 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
but the pay level is determined by the employer, who in his opinion deems what the worker is worth.

here he justifies (to himself) that he can pay a very low amount - as he feels that this worker is of low calibre - but it is a completely arbritary subjective reasoning, as evidenced by the doctor/train driver in SU analogy and that of the teacher and union worker.

so we can see, that those with the bigger stick will create artificial justification to take as much of the pie as they can get away with.

It would be a lot easier if people just came out and said 'I want the money so I'm having it, because I am stronger than you' - this is what is happening.

obvious really - and it's just Animal Farm 101!
err no. It is called commision. Real Estate agents in the US make $0 an hour until the sale. Sales people are often paid by how much they can sell. If the waitress can talk you into a higher priced item or cause you to come around more often then it helps the buisness.
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