Communism - can it work; why/why not? (check, exam, rich)

[Kenneth-Kaunda]

Originally Posted by Mircea

You are the parasite.

It is you who are pathetic, weak, timid, frightened, ignorant, lazy, apathetic and lacking in motivation to work for yourself ---- and instead you clamor like flies to a dead body to work for the Big Corporation -- because you don't have to expend any energy.

You don't have to risk any of your own money. You don't have to invest any of your time. You don't have to make decisions that will be met with scorn or criticism. You don't have to take the heat when one of your decisions meets with spectacular total failure.

All you have to do is show up and punch a time clock.

sounds like Adolf Mircea to the rescue then, I can hardly wait!

That is one of your more ridiculous passages - do you realise that a rocket scientist for NASA would likely have some kind of clocking in and out procedure, or do you suggest they just start their own business instead in order to show some backbone?

[erasure]

Originally Posted by hoffdano

Human nature is not greed and selfishness. It is to achieve and separate one's self from the ordinary.

And that would be what?
To "start one's own business" and to become rich?
How extraordinary))))

[Kenneth-Kaunda]

the human ego does tend to lead us into the realm of master and slave - no real escape from it.

There always seem to be two classes - ie: the elite and it's lackeys, and the subservient class.

The same can be said of many personal relationships - there is usually a leader and a follower of sorts.

Even so, this does not mean we have to excessively reward the dominating class.

[erasure]

Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda

the human ego does tend to lead us into the realm of master and slave - no real escape from it.

There always seem to be two classes - ie: the elite and it's lackeys, and the subservient class.

The same can be said of many personal relationships - there is usually a leader and a follower of sorts.

Even so, this does not mean we have to excessively reward the dominating class.

The only problem is, they are the ones who decide for the most part how much they want to reward themselves.
After all, they are the ones who pay for police and the army.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda

Even so, this does not mean we have to excessively reward the dominating class.

Why didn't you just say from the get-go that you suffer from Penis Envy Disease?

Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda

sounds like Adolf Mircea to the rescue then, I can hardly wait!

Based on what? Your ignorance is truly astounding.

Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda

That is one of your more ridiculous passages - do you realise that a rocket scientist for NASA would likely have some kind of clocking in and out procedure, or do you suggest they just start their own business instead in order to show some backbone?

Why can't they start their own business?

Have you ever seen a rocket? I mean up close and personal -- "seeing" meaning "touching with the the hands?" I doubt it.

There are various parts to a rocket. Main engine, booster(s), thrusters, guidance control adaptors and quite a few other things, like lots of Printed Wire Boards (PWBs).

So Mr. Rocket Scientist can't design a PWB that performs certain functions efficiently, and has applications in other areas? Like perhaps a PWB that functions as a controller for other PWBs?

Well, gosh, Mr. Rocket Scientist would have to write up a business plan. Why waste time going to the library to learn how to write business plans? Why waste time talking with people at SCORE (Service Core of Retired Executives) to get help on writing a business plan? Why pay someone who specializes in writing business plans to write one for them?

Why waste time seeking Capital for start-up?

There are many things Mr. Rocket Scientist could do, but he just doesn't wanna. Beggars cannot be choosers.

Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda

which may work if you only have exactly one condition to be looked at, but in many cases there are multiple problems and symptoms that need to be dealt with at the same time.

No, that is not the way it works. Medically, they address only one issue at a time surgically.

Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda

What if the person needing heart surgery also happens to be pregnant?

So what if they are? It alters nothing.

Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda

what will you do - shuffle her back and forth between different clinics all day?

And why would that even be necessary? It would behoove you to refrain from commenting on things you know nothing about....which is apparently nearly everything.

Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda

so where can you rent an apartment on this kind of salary

Earth.

I take it you've never been out of your parents' basement.

You know, in Tajikistan, the average wage is $1.31/hour.

Did you think that Tajiks were all homeless, or did you think they lived in cardboard boxes?

You have a lot of learning to do.

Amused...

Mircea

Originally Posted by ovcatto

And monopolies come from the tooth fairy?

No, monopolies come from an abuse of power, in large part because there is no "Separation of Special Interest & State."

And why is there no "Separation of Special Interest & State?"

Because you are pathetic.

You keep twiddling your thumbs waiting for Congress to do something that Congress will never do -- never meaning "at no time ever" -- and that is pass meaningful campaign finance reform laws that bar specialist interests from using government to their advantage.

And even that wouldn't be so bad, except that you keep waiting for your State legislatures do to the same thing -- even though they will never do it for the exact same reason your Congress will never do it.

So if you want to permanently end this problem, then that means you, as in you personally, or someone else, is going to have to resolve it.

That means you are going to have to go to the library and learn how to set up a non-profit corporation. And then you are going to have to chat up your family and friends and people on the street to help you and to donate money to your cause, so that you can set up a web-site, so that you can convince others in other States to do like you are doing.

And you're going to have to go out and get volunteers and pound pavement getting registered voters to sign a petition to so that you can have public referendum on the issue of a limited constitutional convention.

And you're going to have to be successful in at least 34 States. And then you're going to have to have your proposed constitutional amendment for campaign finance reform approved by public referendum in at least 38 States, meaning you and your volunteers are going to be pounding lots of pavement.

That, is what you need to do, and you or anyone else can do that just as soon as you get sick and tired of the current stupidity that permeates your political scene.

And if you or no one else does it, then we'll be having this same conversation next year, and the year after, and the year after that, and 10 years from now, and 25 years from now and 100 years from now...

....until you or someone else finally does what you need to do.

You have your marching orders, so what's the point in continually whining and sniveling?

Ovcatto: Doctor it hurts like hell when I stick this fork in my eye-ball.

Dr. Mircea: Then stop sticking the fork in your eye-ball and it won't hurt.

Originally Posted by ovcatto

A very interesting perspective of the role of labor in an industrial or even post industrial society. Actually a rather bizarre, or should I say, pathetically sociopathic.

I guess the truth hurts.

You live by the Corporation, you die by the Corporation. That's just the way it is. And how did you arrive at this point?

By being pathetic, weak, timid, frightened, ignorant, lazy, apathetic and lacking in motivation to do any of the things that you needed to do.

You wanted to vote, but you didn't want to study any of the issues before-hand, and it wouldn't matter anyway, since you reject everything except that which you want to hear. You didn't go to the township trustee meetings, the school board meetings or the town/village/city council meetings, because you'd miss re-runs of Three's Company.

You threw your neighbors who ran the Mom & Pop shops under the bus, so that you could save a penny at Wal*Mart.

How's that working out for everybody? How much money did people really save?

Think about it.

Someone unemployed for the last 3 years: their loss of income versus their savings at the Big Corporate Box Stores. Their foreclosure, their bankruptcy, their loss of credit...

...oh, yes, they really saved a big bundle didn't they?

You threw your allegiance to the Big Corporations after you drank the Kool-Aid and put your blinders on, so you couldn't see that the only moral, ethical and legal duty a publicly traded corporation has is to its share-holders...

...yet you complain incessantly that they show you no allegiance.

You sat by and idly watched as all manner of special interest groups -- corporations, think-tanks, PACs, lobbyists, unions and others --- wrote your laws, but now you complain that you're getting screwed every which way but horizontally.

Well, that goes back to the "stop sticking the fork in your eye-ball" thing.

Of course it was going to end up this way....everyone with a brain knew that. And how did they know? Because it's in the nature of people. People are...

...pathetic, weak, timid, frightened, ignorant, lazy, apathetic and lacking in motivation to do any of the things that they need to do.

History has proven that repeatedly. Why would things ever change?

Realistically...

Mircea

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by erasure

And that would be what?
To "start one's own business" and to become rich?
How extraordinary))))

There is a giant chasm between achievement and rich. I don't think most people truly aspire to be rich (and commit all those horrible deeds socialists/communists say are necessary to become rich). They just don't want to be equalized. When people do something worthy - they want credit for it. It could be money. It could be simply the recognition offered by a free press covering their achievement.

Regardless of supposed economic benefits of communism the result is a nearly equal amount of misery. A great amount of misery threatens those in power resulting in oppressive governments. And these oppressive governments take away basic freedoms - the kinds of freedoms written into our Constitution.

[erasure]

Originally Posted by hoffdano

There is a giant chasm between achievement and rich.

Where do you see this "giant chasm" in American society for example?

I don't think most people truly aspire to be rich. They just don't want to be equalized.

Which means exactly what?

Regardless of supposed economic benefits of communism the result is a nearly equal amount of misery.

Communism comes as the result of a wide-spread misery of capitalism.
As long as capitalism is kept in check, communism ( as radical measure) remains only a distant threat; a reminder so to speak.

[Kenneth-Kaunda]

Originally Posted by Mircea

Why didn't you just say from the get-go that you suffer from Penis Envy Disease?

now you are just being silly.

would you care to explain how advocating Marxist principles makes me a sufferer of Penis Envy

and let's not forget the idea of 'strength by unity' - a common aim of Socialism.

Soviet Union, China, workers unions etc.. - all strong forces in their day.

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by erasure

Where do you see this "giant chasm" in American society for example?

Try the the drug lords. They are rich. What is their achievement?

[Teff]

Originally Posted by gwynedd1

Try the the drug lords. They are rich. What is their achievement?

Meeting consumer demand? Kind of like Zynga, but with positive net income.