Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
How do these salaries, which you feel are considerably above average, compare to other professionals? For example, how does a nurse's salary compare to a teacher's?
The average RN's salary in NY is between 40,251 - $82,113; the average teacher's salary in NY is $72,708.
The average RN's salary in IL is between $35,709 - $75,598. The average teacher's salary in IL is $64,509.
Please keep in mind when making these comparisons, many teachers are off for the entire summer and in places like NY, some choose to get summer jobs to supplement their incomes. (One popular choice among NY teachers is to work as a summer lifeguard, on the beach. In fact, the NYS teacher's union now represents lifeguards too.) [Source] Teachers are also off on all holidays, both major and minor, for prep days, etc. Consider too the time off for fall break, Thanksgiving week, the entire period from before Christmas until after New Year, and spring break, while nurses average a total of 4 weeks vacation/year. (Two weeks in some other states, i.e. TX and AZ.) By including all the additional time off teacher's receive, you can make a closer apples-to-apples comparison. Please note too, these salary comparisons do not include any benefits you reference in your first paragraph.
Excellent post! Some of these people will not be happy until everyone is making $3 an hour. What they fail to understand is they themselves will still only be earning half that amount! Sour grapes!
Why not go after engineers who earn decent salaries? Don't those generous salaries result in higher costs of goods too? After they beat down the teachers, the nurses, the factor workers, et al they will come for you. Soon everyone will be scrounging for scraps. Except, perhaps, the elites who are likely orchestrating it all.
Twenty years ago... we did not have a single nurse of Filipino ancestry...
Today, it is about 20% and all of our nurses, Filipino and non-Filipino are very good... we track comments and PACU has pages of positive comments from patients.
One thing I have noticed is from a young age, Filipino families really encourage nursing... much more so than any group that I know.
One of my caucasian neighbors was very disappointed when her granddaughter entered nursing school... she said the girl is so bright... I don't know why she is selling herself short being a hospital maid.
I had a long talk with her and explained nursing today is a far cry from what it was... also told her the administrator/CEO of the Hospital where I work is an RN plus all the related fields nursing opens the doors to.
Today, my neighbor couldn't be happier... her granddaughter is a supervisor with lots of seniority and makes good money with good benefits... and she was at the hospital when her Grandmother was having issues was of great comfort.
But why are they considered better than American nurses?
As an American citizen and American educated nurse I do resent that people feel that way.
You know what's happened around here? It seems instead of hiring American educated nurses,hospitals would rather hire them,even going as far to import them.
How do these salaries, which you feel are considerably above average, compare to other professionals? For example, how does a nurse's salary compare to a teacher's?
The average RN's salary in NY is between 40,251 - $82,113; the average teacher's salary in NY is $72,708.
The average RN's salary in IL is between $35,709 - $75,598. The average teacher's salary in IL is $64,509.
Please keep in mind when making these comparisons, many teachers are off for the entire summer and in places like NY, some choose to get summer jobs to supplement their incomes. (One popular choice among NY teachers is to work as a summer lifeguard, on the beach. In fact, the NYS teacher's union now represents lifeguards too.) [Source] Teachers are also off on all holidays, both major and minor, for prep days, etc., while hospitals run 24/7 around-the-clock. Consider too a teacher's time off for fall break, Thanksgiving week, the entire period from before Christmas until after New Year, and spring break, while nurses average a total of 4 weeks vacation/year. (Two weeks in some other states, i.e. TX and AZ.) By including all the additional time off teacher's receive, you can make a closer apples-to-apples comparison. Please note too, these salary comparisons do not include any benefits you reference in your first paragraph.
Where are these nurses getting a 4 week vacation?
I don't get any vacation days,but I do get paid time off,usually 2 weeks a year.
Often,I have to use those days when I'm sick.
One thing I do find odd is that Nurses have carved out a special exemption in the labor law when it comes to overtime requirements... where as many other professionals are exempt from being paid overtime in most cases... it is just the opposite for Registered Nurses.
It's really not odd, when you think about it. Most nurses, particularly hospital-based nurses, cannot just leave at the end of their tour of duty. They must be relieved by another nurse, so there is no break in patient care or services rendered.
For example, let's say a nurse is working a 7AM to 7PM shift. She can not leave until her relief shows up and she signs out to her relief. (I am using "her" as a generic, since most nurses are female. Of course, it could also be a "his".) If her relief is on-time but the day nurse is so involved with a patient at that time, she could be in the room an extra hour or more. This means she can't begin to sign out until 8 PM. I shudder to think what might happen if a patient was assigned a nurse with sub-par integrity, who might stall getting involved with a patient in need because it was too close to going-home time.
Another and more common example would be that the 7PM nurse did not show up. That could result from a last minute sick call-in, to the relief nurse forgetting she was assigned to work that particular night. The day shift nurse would wait a while, hoping her relief was simply a bit late. As time progressed, she would notify TPTB and let them know her relief didn't show. The hospital then has to scramble and try to get someone else to come in at the last minute and cover. If the hospital is successful, that substitute night nurse might not be able to get there until 11PM. The day nurse, who already worked 12 hours, would then be forced to work 16 hours - or else she would be abandoning her patients. Once the substitute nurse gets there, the day nurse still needs to "give report", or sign-out to the oncoming nurse, meaning the day nurse put in even more time.
Since most nurses are paid hourly, shouldn't she be entitled to be compensated for all of that extra time?
Last edited by CheyDee; 10-19-2012 at 02:04 AM..
Reason: grammar
Ask doctors whether they are doing unneeded tests to cover their backsides and see what they say. Go to your primary care doctor with a headache that has classic features of migraine and you'll probably get treated for migraine headaches for the cost of an office visit. Go to the ER and you will probably get the $3000 to $5000 workup just to make sure you do not have a brain tumor. After all, you were sick enough to consider it an emergency, were you not?
I agree 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
OBGYN Rochester area, NY: $36,166 per year; Long Island counties, NY $181,132; Miami and Philadelphia are even higher. California, Fresno area, $15,484 per year.
The difference? CA has comprehensive tort reform with a cap on "pain and suffering" and provisions to prevent plaintiffs for recovering expenses that have been paid by other sources, including health insurance.
I don't know if that is accurate, because Rochester, NY and Long Island, NY are both in NY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
...the the biggest driver of premiums is the insurance company's perception of risk for the entire group. That is why there is such a big discrepancy in premiums from one geographical region to another. The same physician, with exactly the same claims history, will pay different premiums based solely on the address of his office. That is because the insurance company rates the location based on the propensity of juries in different locations to award large verdicts.
Where are these nurses getting a 4 week vacation?
I don't get any vacation days,but I do get paid time off,usually 2 weeks a year.
Often,I have to use those days when I'm sick.
Hospitals in many states offer a "basket", if you will, of PTO. You can use that time off as sick time, vacation time, or however you choose. Some states are on the low end of the spectrum, i.e. AZ and TX, and generally offer only 2-3 weeks total days. On the high end are hospitals such as many in the NYC area, which average 4 week's vacation plus additional days to be used as sick time.
I would like to suggest that rather than RN salaries, the uninsured are a significant driver of high health care costs. In order to recoup the costs of uncompensated care, providers raise the price of services for the insured, which creates a vicious cycle, since higher premimums ultimately lead to more uninsured patients.
I would further suggest, (while donning my flame-resistant suit), that the free market has been restricted from playing it's part in keeping costs down.
For example, why do hospitals not provide a price list of many of their major services, to facilitate price-comparisons by consumers? More specifically, if one was to need elective gallbladder removal, why can't consumers price shop and choose to schedule surgery at their facility of choice? If their surgeon has privileges at three hospitals, what do those three hospitals charge? Why doesn't the consumer know that for a same-day, uncomplicated lap-chole Hospital A charges "x" amount, Hospital B charges "y" amount and Hospital C charges "z" amount? Obviously, if Hospitals B and C are far pricier than Hospital A for the same service, more patients would electively go to Hospital A for their procedure. Hospitals B and C would be forced to lower their prices to compete for their market share. Could you imagine going into a restaurant, ordering and eating a complete dinner and having no idea what your bill will be at the end?
Speaking of what hospitals charge... Why do hospitals not charge physicians to use their services? Why is a surgeon not billed for Operating Room time? In addition to the use of the OR suite and it's electricity, the surgeon is using the hospital's equipment and instruments, much of which requires sterilization by the hospital afterwards, they use disposable items (such as sponges) which the hospital paid for, two nurses are often assigned to the surgery who are paid for by the hospital, the OR suite has to be re-cleaned after each use, etc.
Why are providers allowed to charge different prices for different consumers? While patients are not a protected class, (such as gender, age, race, disability, etc.), it surely seems like discrimination for there to be multiple prices for the same service.
I don't know if that is accurate, because Rochester, NY and Long Island, NY are both in NY.
It is accurate. The two regions are rated differently, primarily because of differences in jury awards. It is not because OBGYNs on Long Island are less capable than OBGYNs in Rochester.
I would like to suggest that rather than RN salaries, the uninsured are a significant driver of high health care costs. In order to recoup the costs of uncompensated care, providers raise the price of services for the insured, which creates a vicious cycle, since higher premimums ultimately lead to more uninsured patients.
I would further suggest, (while donning my flame-resistant suit), that the free market has been restricted from playing it's part in keeping costs down.
For example, why do hospitals not provide a price list of many of their major services, to facilitate price-comparisons by consumers? More specifically, if one was to need elective gallbladder removal, why can't consumers price shop and choose to schedule surgery at their facility of choice? If their surgeon has privileges at three hospitals, what do those three hospitals charge? Why doesn't the consumer know that for a same-day, uncomplicated lap-chole Hospital A charges "x" amount, Hospital B charges "y" amount and Hospital C charges "z" amount? Obviously, if Hospitals B and C are far pricier than Hospital A for the same service, more patients would electively go to Hospital A for their procedure. Hospitals B and C would be forced to lower their prices to compete for their market share. Could you imagine going into a restaurant, ordering and eating a complete dinner and having no idea what your bill will be at the end?
Speaking of what hospitals charge... Why do hospitals not charge physicians to use their services? Why is a surgeon not billed for Operating Room time? In addition to the use of the OR suite and it's electricity, the surgeon is using the hospital's equipment and instruments, much of which requires sterilization by the hospital afterwards, they use disposable items (such as sponges) which the hospital paid for, two nurses are often assigned to the surgery who are paid for by the hospital, the OR suite has to be re-cleaned after each use, etc.
Why are providers allowed to charge different prices for different consumers? While patients are not a protected class, (such as gender, age, race, disability, etc.), it surely seems like discrimination for there to be multiple prices for the same service.
You can find out average prices. All you have to do is ask. Just don't expect it to be a price fixed in stone, because the same procedure may be more complicated for one patient than another.
Insured patients usually find their insurance company picks the hospital. The rate the insurance company pays will often be only a fraction of what the hospital bills. This makes it even worse for an uninsured patient. If you are uninsured and the situation is not urgent, see if you can negotiate the charge.
If the hospital charged the physician to use the facilities, then the surgeon would just have to pass those charges on to the patient. That would not save any money.
It is unreasonable to expect competition to lower medical costs because there are too many restrictions on the hospitals and doctors to make it a true competitive environment. How can hospitals compete when some have many more indigent patients than others? States even have laws that restrict opening new hospitals or adding new hospital services. If the state thinks there is no need for additional labor and delivery services for example, a new hospital will not get a "certificate of need" to have them.
I agree with whomever said a big draw in the cost of healthcare is the uninsured who can't afford to pay their bill or won't even make the attempt at monthly payments. This includes illegal aliens and drug addicts who arrive in the ER at night complaining of back pain.
I hope hospitals don't go away from CNA (certified nurses assistants) and LPN (licensed practical nurses). There are some people who can't afford to spend the time and money in college to go directly to an RN. My ex-wife went to a community college to become a CNA. While working as a CNA, she continued her studies to become an LPN while a single mother (I was stationed in Italy in the Navy at the time). While working as an LPN, she continued her studies to become an RN. Nurses at work tell me they need the help of CNAs and LPNs because of all the required paperwork (now via slow computer software) and phone calls to doctors they must do today for micromanagement regulations.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
