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Healthcare costs are one of the leading topics of discussion, riddled with all kinds of suggestions and proposals, none of which address the root of the problem which is high labor costs, particularly RN salaries. I know I'm stepping on toes with this topic, given the high number of RNs who probably visit this site.
However, the fact is Nursing salaries have been artificially propped up by this man-made shortage perpetuated by the silly entrance requirements and waiting lists in community college programs. I'm not talking about basic standards (those are needed). I'm talking about silly prerequisites like English classes or math even for those with bachelor’s degrees in other fields. Also, community colleges need to create more slots to accommodate the big waiting lists. That alone would basically end the so-called nursing shortage which has driven up nursing salaries to unsustainable levels. Yes, some will argue they're worth it but the salaries are just as unsustainable to hospitals as assembly line workers making over $60/hr was unsustainable to the auto sector which had to be bailed out.
To me, the highest contributing factor is our sue happy society. Doctors aren't allowed to just run what they believe to be the necessary tests, they must run those as well as a myriad of completely unnecessary tests, just to be sure they don't miss something and get sued over it. In addition, the number of malpractice suits drives up the cost of their insurance to an unsustainable level, forcing them to charge an unreasonable amount for their services, just to make a living.
Given what they have to put up with, I think most doctors and especially nurses are actually underpaid.
And no, I'm not a nurse/doctor, nor are any of my immediate family.
*Edit* Actually, going back and rereading, I will agree that high salaries (doctors and nurses both) are a cause of high health care costs, but they are just a proximal cause, not the ultimate cause. They are high because of other factors, which was my point. Your post implied that they are overpaid, and I totally disagree with that.
To me, the highest contributing factor is our sue happy society. Doctors aren't allowed to just run what they believe to be the necessary tests, they must run those as well as a myriad of completely unnecessary tests, just to be sure they don't miss something and get sued over it. In addition, the number of malpractice suits drives up the cost of their insurance to an unsustainable level, forcing them to charge an unreasonable amount for their services, just to make a living.
Given what they have to put up with, I think most doctors and especially nurses are actually underpaid.
And no, I'm not a nurse/doctor, nor is any of my immediate family.
none of which address the root of the problem which is high labor costs, particularly RN salaries. [/color]
Nursing salaries are high(er) today because of the high(er) standards of a profession.
What once was "nurses training" done on the wards of hospitals and their in house schools...
has changed to nursing university based BSN EDUCATION and far greater competencies.
It's a good thing too considering the shortage of DOCTOR's.
This is why we have (and need) so MSN nurse practitioners.
And yeah, we could use more slots in nursing education.
But don't think that would (or should!) reduce their salaries.
I don't think you can blame all of the health care costs on Nurses. In fact there are a number of issues which help to drive up the cost of health care. Do you know if you call for an ambulance in New Jersey, two must show up, one to carry the person to the hospital, and another a chase vehicle. Often the chase vehicle is just an SUV, other times it's another fully equipped ambulance. In fact they are not suppose to move 10 feet without the chase vehicle. It sometimes leaves them sitting at an address, they already picked up the person and is just sitting there waiting for the chase vehicle to arrive. Just imagine for a minute if you eliminated the chase vehicle requirement, That's one less person required to go to every call, one less vehicle burning fuel, one less vehicle to buy and maintain. Not only that, now that the ambulance doesn't have to sit around waiting for the chase vehicle, they can rush to the hospital soon as the patient is stabilized and secured.
There more than a few bone head things the medical community does that drive up health care costs.
Nursing salaries are high(er) today because of the high(er) standards of a profession.
What once was "nurses training" done on the wards of hospitals and their in house schools...
has changed to nursing university based BSN EDUCATION and far greater competencies.
Healthcare in the 70s and 80s when the RN salaries were much lower was just as good and most of the RNs had either hands on training out of high school or an associates. My point is a BSN shouldn't be required in the first place for a job that only requires an associates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational
It's a good thing too considering the shortage of DOCTOR's.
This is why we have (and need) so MSN nurse practitioners.
There wouldn't be a doctor shortage if there was serious tort reform and the waiting lists to get into medical school were alleviated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational
And yeah, we could use more slots in nursing education.
But don't think that would (or should!) reduce their salaries.
I'm not saying they should be making minimum wage but the salaries they get paid are unsustainable. Also, there are many jobs that require as much education that pay less.
I will say this though- The nurses that work in Pediatric care are worth what they're paid, no argument there. All the other ones, not so much. My point here is that healthcare should also be rationed to a degree for adults so that it can be delivered where it should be and that's the kids(the future of society)
I don't think you can blame all of the health care costs on Nurses.
The premise of this thread wasn't to lay blame on any one party. Nurses are no more at fault for high healthcare costs than assembly line workers were for GM going bankrupt.
In terms of the later example, it was universally recognized that the wages were too high and as such, they have been adjusted for new hires. Even with that adjustment the new hires make about $40/hr(after you factor in the benefits), which is still a decent wage instead of the $80 or so/hr they were making in the past.
I don't know if the healthcare industry is going to face that same day of reckoning but sooner or later something will have to give, given how unsustainable healthcare costs have become.
Healthcare costs are one of the leading topics of discussion, riddled with all kinds of suggestions and proposals, none of which address the root of the problem which is high labor costs, particularly RN salaries. I know I'm stepping on toes with this topic, given the high number of RNs who probably visit this site.
However, the fact is Nursing salaries have been artificially propped up by this man-made shortage perpetuated by the silly entrance requirements and waiting lists in community college programs. I'm not talking about basic standards (those are needed). I'm talking about silly prerequisites like English classes or math even for those with bachelor’s degrees in other fields. Also, community colleges need to create more slots to accommodate the big waiting lists. That alone would basically end the so-called nursing shortage which has driven up nursing salaries to unsustainable levels. Yes, some will argue they're worth it but the salaries are just as unsustainable to hospitals as assembly line workers making over $60/hr was unsustainable to the auto sector which had to be bailed out.
What would you wish to pay a highly trained person that holds another persons life in their hands, 10.00 an hour?
My aunt retired in the late 90's as a nurse practitioner at close to 90,000 dollars a year.
That was from years and years of experience, being a floor supervisor and holding a masters degree in nursing.
She held a absolute crazy schedule many times working on Christmas eve and Christmas day.
If the powers that be start to manipulate nurses salaries you will see a rapid decline in care.
This is something that we can ill afford in an already trashed healthcare system.
Mark my words on this.
Last edited by julian17033; 09-20-2012 at 10:45 AM..
In addition, the number of malpractice suits drives up the cost of their insurance to an unsustainable level, forcing them to charge an unreasonable amount for their services, just to make a living.
Actually it's the insurance companies that are driving up insurance costs. States that passed laws to limit your ability to sue for medical malpractice, have seen there insurance rates increase faster than other states that haven't passed such laws. You would think costs would go down, but in reality, the insurance company is making HUGE profits and are driving up rates to make more PROFITS. We would like to believe the insurance companies would do the "right" thing and lower rates when there expenses fall, but there's nothing to force them to do so. Perhaps the solution is to eliminate private insurance companies all together, if there is so much money in it, surely a government non-profit malpractice insurance entity can collect premiums high enough to cover costs, but low enough to drive the cost of health care down.
- Defensive medicine and high malpractice coverage due to lawsuits is a major contributor.
- The high costs to cover current administrative requirements, collections, and charity write-offs.
- Providing services that are losers (medicare and medicaid) raise costs.
- Simple inflation has run up the costs of labor, facilities, equipment, and supplies.
Medicine is a highly regulated industry and as government gets more involved it will cost more and more.
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