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Old 09-23-2012, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,538 posts, read 6,801,889 times
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The US has traditionally employed a large number of workers with few skills and provided the necessary training for them to do their job. Many of these workers moved their way up the ladder as they gained experience and learned new skills. These jobs traditionally paid a wage that was sufficient to modestly support a family, taking care of basic needs.

Today technology and automation has largely replaced many of these no skill/low skill jobs. Increasingly, employers are looking for employees with specific skills/experiences even for entry-level positions. Most of these skills/experiences require a college degree or an expensive post-secondary program. However, there exists a large group of people who lack the ability, will, motivation or interest in acquiring these skills. Even if they did, is it realistic to assume that the US can educate/train all its citizens to meet the employment realities of an automated world? If this goal were to be realized, would there be enough job opportunities for the production and services needed to satisfy demand or would it further cannibalize the middle-class standard of living with a more abundant supply of potential employees?
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:48 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,367 posts, read 14,309,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
The US has traditionally employed a large number of workers with few skills and provided the necessary training for them to do their job. Many of these workers moved their way up the ladder as they gained experience and learned new skills. These jobs traditionally paid a wage that was sufficient to modestly support a family, taking care of basic needs.

Today technology and automation has largely replaced many of these no skill/low skill jobs. Increasingly, employers are looking for employees with specific skills/experiences even for entry-level positions. Most of these skills/experiences require a college degree or an expensive post-secondary program. However, there exists a large group of people who lack the ability, will, motivation or interest in acquiring these skills. Even if they did, is it realistic to assume that the US can educate/train all its citizens to meet the employment realities of an automated world? If this goal were to be realized, would there be enough job opportunities for the production and services needed to satisfy demand or would it further cannibalize the middle-class standard of living with a more abundant supply of potential employees?
With respect to the part in bold, you forgot to take into consideration that unskilled labor in other countries, such has China, has displaced much of the unskilled labor in the countries of early industrialization, such as the US and western Europe.

In general, the answer to the question is no, and the policy to provide pseudo executive-style housing to virtually everyone regardless of whether they are able or unable to give back in return executive-level intelligence and productivity, but only have the pretension of doing so, is a big part of what got us into this mess to begin with.

With maybe a few exceptions like oil-rich Norway with a population of about 5 million, any society with a mass of population over an extended territory probably needs all kinds of workers with all different skill levels, and a distribution of income and wealth to match it, obviously with some give and take to maintain a humane and prosperous society.

The US has to re-discover comparative advantages - which include the skill-challenged - in everything that makes sense everywhere possible, from airplane and rocket-engine construction to the manufacture of shoes and socks to picking olives and tomatoes.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:07 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 82,975,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
Is the Goal of a Highly-Skilled Workforce Realistic?
If this goal were to be realized, would there be enough job opportunities
for the production and services needed to satisfy demand...
NO. There would not (will not) be enough decently paying work (unless we reduce the population).
We could do that but so far it doesn't look likely to happen.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,538 posts, read 6,801,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
With respect to the part in bold, you forgot to take into consideration that unskilled labor in other countries, such has China, has displaced much of the unskilled labor in the countries of early industrialization, such as the US and western Europe.
I agree with you. However, the low-cost labor is temporary and migratory. It only works as long as the labor costs remain comparatively low. This is what is currently starting to adversely-affect China's model. The minute those costs start to rise and production can be transfered elsewhere it is. This has resulted in some of the jobs coming back here because the labor+quality control issues+shipping costs now cost more than keeping production in the US. However, if automation is possible then the labor advantage disappears and the quality control improves.

It appears to me that on a global basis there are not enough jobs opportunities to satisfy the number of people needing employment based purely on supply and demand. There are unmet demands in poor countries, ie. clean water, food, shelter, etc., but the people affected lack the financial resources to satisfy these demands that meet their basic needs. Any attempt to meet this unsatisfied demand would require deliberate action and support, largely from other countries, primarily through government intervention.

Alternative energy development is a significant opportunity that would provide world-wide employment benefits. The development, installation, and maintenance of national projects would not only generate a number of jobs of multiple skill levels but it would also be helpful to our planet in terms of reduced pollution and depletion of natural resources.

However, as Mr. Rational pointed out, there are other social factors such as population growth that would need to be addressed as well. This is not likely based on what we have witnessed recently because of irreconcilable differences.
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
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For a great majority of people, acquisition of "skills" has little prospect of ever doing anything but keeping them above the poverty line. The skills that you learn in the higher education process will do nothing except assure you a higher-end wage on payday, but still at or near the minimum income required to maintain what you will continue to call "middle-class". Maximizing your skills will only open, often temporarily, a smallish gap of daylight between you and recognizable poverty. This will afford you some transient luxury, but probably little or no leisure.

You will never be among the rich, without luck and/or some intangible talent that you were born with, unrelated to your professional skillset. You will still simply be exploited by the rich, for whatever you are willing and able to do for them. Romney was right about one thing: If your income never rises above $250K, you will never really be above middle-class. And acquired job-skills alone will never get you there. You will just be in the "realistic workforce". making money only as fast as you can learn to spend it.

Last edited by jtur88; 09-23-2012 at 10:02 AM..
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,253,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You will never be among the rich, without luck and/or some intangible talent that you were born with, unrelated to your professional skillset. You will still simply be exploited by the rich, for whatever you are willing and able to do for them. Romney was right about one thing: If your income never rises above $250K, you will never really be above middle-class. And acquired job-skills alone will never get you there. You will just be in the "realistic workforce". making money only as fast as you can learn to spend it.
We make barely more than half that amount and live pretty nicely. I don't feel exploited. If anything at times I feel like the exploitation is the other way around as we work from home not having to do anything particularly difficult with plenty of free time for other pursuits.
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:22 AM
 
Location: WA
5,641 posts, read 24,955,595 times
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In talking with business owners/operators at an association meeting recently it sounds like business could be forced into some kind of program, but it may not be training.

I was told just trying to find entry level applicants that can show basic reading and math skills and can pass a drug test is sometimes very difficult. One owner said he shut down a line and obtains components from China primarily because of staffing issues... and this is at a time when unemployment is high and decent applicants should be available. Incurring training costs with a unstable staff was not a consideration.

Our society and education system has changed and in many places it is no wonder that production has moved.
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,253,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
I was told just trying to find entry level applicants that can show basic reading and math skills and can pass a drug test is sometimes very difficult. One owner said he shut down a line and obtains components from China primarily because of staffing issues... and this is at a time when unemployment is high and decent applicants should be available. Incurring training costs with a unstable staff was not a consideration.

Our society and education system has changed and in many places it is no wonder that production has moved.
Hmmm. I see no hesitance on their part to hire recent immigrants who have presumably poorer educations. Despite the rhetoric, education levels have not declined in the U.S. amongst the native population. I think they just want to be pay wage rates prevailing in China and third world countries.
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Old 09-23-2012, 01:01 PM
 
Location: WA
5,641 posts, read 24,955,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Hmmm. I see no hesitance on their part to hire recent immigrants who have presumably poorer educations. Despite the rhetoric, education levels have not declined in the U.S. amongst the native population. I think they just want to be pay wage rates prevailing in China and third world countries.
What are you speculating about? I reported an actual situation and without knowing the company, people, or industry you feel you must state an opinion that frankly is way off base.

Sorry, it is this kind of rhetoric that kills many discussions.
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,253,676 times
Reputation: 6920
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
What are you speculating about? I reported an actual situation and without knowing the company, people, or industry you feel you must state an opinion that frankly is way off base.

Sorry, it is this kind of rhetoric that kills many discussions.
You posted some anecdotes from a conference which is hardly rigrous statistical analysis.
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