Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
How about this? Treat student loans the way you would treat a business loan. The student would have to come to the entity, be it a bank or the FEDs, and lay out a business plan as to why they should get a loan, how they'll use their degree, show some knowledge of the subject matter BEFORE they get a loan, etc. If you can't show that you know what you're doing, you don't get a business loan. Same should be applied to education loan, if you have no idea what you're going to do with the money, what your field of study is, how you'll pay it back PRIOR to getting that loan, then, sorry, you don't get the money.
What the hell is wrong with USAAmericans, are they this stupid? If you don't know why you are going to be using any loan, then you shouldn't get the money! That would mean that students need to do quite a bit of research, and display an exceptional amount of savvy and knowledge before making what may turn out to be one of the worst decisions of their lives. And if a bank or FEDs still make these loans and the borrower can't make the payments due to lack of work, then hell yes the borrower should be able to declare bankruptcy. It will make the banks and their government satraps take responsibility for making stupid loans to 18-19 year olds. Everyone needs to grow up and accept responsibility, if you want to borrow money, then nut up and show that you know what you're doing in order to get that money. If you want to loan money, then know that you may need to eat your losses if you make stupid loans.
Furthermore, the prospective student loan borrower must have at least 20% of the estimated cost of attending university already in hand prior to getting a loan. And by that I mean that the STUDENT have the money, not anything that comes from the parent or any other source. They may need to work a few years prior to going to college, look at alternative ways to bypass General Ed requirements, meaning taking advance placement courses or tests, testing out of courses, etc. As a former hs teacher, I would tell my students not to be stupid and take remedial courses at a university and pay thousands of dollars to learn what they should be learning now, infinitely cheaper. Find those unis which have placement exams or attend community colleges at the same time that they're in hs, if they show an ability to master the subject matter at a younger age. For damn sake, show some gumption, some drive, anything to get past the ridiculous cost of college.
State governments love them. They've been able to privatize public higher education and shift money to exploding Medicaid programs in lieu of raising taxes. Your student loans are basically paying for grandma's nursing home care. This is a huge inter-generational wealth transfer.
I disagree with putting any restrictions on being to able to finance college by taking out Federal student loans.
Higher education is a business and it provides millions of jobs.
The student will pay the loans back through garnishing their Federal Income Tax Return over the course of their lifetime if necessary.
That's their freedom to choose, and all citizens are treated equally.
What many folks fail to understand is that if money for college isn't easily obtainable, then only the wealthier Americans would be able to attend college.
That would create more of a class based society and the middle class would shrink.
If colleges go out of business or contract greatly, then millions of high paying jobs will be lost.
And there aren't alternative jobs for all of those workers.
Millions of related jobs will also be lost in computers, book publishing, and goods and services from A-Z that are provided by colleges for students and for the infrastructure needs of the schools.
Every one of the millions of college workers have a family, a rent or a mortgage, car payments and many other bills to pay.
And they buy goods.
Restricting loans would shrink the national economy.
Our colleges would become even more dominated by international and foreign students who would become better educated than our own citizens.
We wouldn't be able to fill all of of the open slots in American colleges with foreign students.
And many smart Americans simply wouldn't be able to afford to go to college.
That is not in our national interest since we need more of our own citizens to become educated professionals, in order to work, pay taxes, and to support all of the future needs of our society, and to keep America strong and free from foreign economic domination..
That's why folks should not advocate cutting student loans which would only make America weaker in the future.
Some very good points there sun! ^^^
Loans allow people to spread the cost of something they could not otherwise afford across many years. And college helps keep America competitive.
But, i do agree that a person should look very subjectively at their plan and whether it makes sense for them to take on huge debt responsibility.
I'm tired of this perspective that college is only vocational training and offers no value beyond that. I don't know about anyone else but I would prefer that 21st century Americans know how to read, write, know math and science, and have a deeper intellectual understanding of the world around them beyond what we can teach in high school. You can argue that people can gain these things without ever going to college, and I would concede that some can, but that most people cannot. A college education isn't just the ticket to the middle class and beyond, it's an opportunity for young people to develop and hone their talents and abilities to be the best citizen and person they can be.
So no, I don't think the government should stop or impose limits to student loans. This is a dangerous idea that does nothing but returns to the old days when higher education was reserved for the wealthy and the rest of us could aspire to nothing more than the simple vocations of our fathers. I thought the idea was for America to be more competetive; to have the best, most highly trained and educated workforce in the world. You don't accomplish this by stifling opportunity for young people and letting only rich and exceptionally talented students continue their education beyond high school.
I did my first 2 years at a community college where I paid my way while working full time. My husband is currently doing the same thing. I then lost my job and couldn't find one with just my 2 year degree so I have gone back for my 4 year. I'm working at the only job I could find, a 30 hour a week internship, that only pays $10/hour. I could not afford to get my 4 year without the federal loans. I did limit the amount I borrowed to the cost of the tuition I couldn't afford. I will be graduating at the end of this summer, my husband will be done with his 2 year in May and then we will move and hopefully gain a better living situation. My degree will be a double major of Accounting/Business and my husband will be going for his 4 year in Electrical Engineering.
I think that as long as children and parents are educated about the loans and understand what they are getting into, than they are a good thing.
I'm tired of this perspective that college is only vocational training and offers no value beyond that. I don't know about anyone else but I would prefer that 21st century Americans know how to read, write, know math and science, and have a deeper intellectual understanding of the world around them beyond what we can teach in high school.
All well and good. Very noble and all that...
but what about those who don't get what could be taught through high school?
Quote:
You can argue that people can gain these things without ever going to college...
I don't see many making that argument.
Quote:
So no, I don't think the government should stop or impose limits to student loans.
You don't accomplish this by stifling opportunity for young people and letting only rich and exceptionally talented students continue their education beyond high school.
Rather than focusing on ways to prop up a means to pay the bloated costs that the university education has become we instead focus on ways to reduce those costs (and hopefully the bloat as well)?
So no, I don't think the government should stop or impose limits to student loans. This is a dangerous idea that does nothing but returns to the old days when higher education was reserved for the wealthy and the rest of us could aspire to nothing more than the simple vocations of our fathers. I thought the idea was for America to be more competetive; to have the best, most highly trained and educated workforce in the world. You don't accomplish this by stifling opportunity for young people and letting only rich and exceptionally talented students continue their education beyond high school.
I don't agree with your premise here. The problem with student loans is that, while they have lessened the immediate pain of writing tuition checks, they have actually created a bigger problem. Since the government began underwriting student loans 40 years ago, college tuitions began rising at a rate roughly four times inflation. This is not a coincidence. Because, suddenly, people could spread their college education payments out over 20 years, they began to not worry about what the bite would be. And colleges, essentially being business, jacked up their tuitions to what the market could bear.
So what you have on your hands is a classic case of the Law of Unintended Consequences. Government creates a program to make college tuition affordable, and colleges hike tuitions accordingly. The cumulative effect over a forty-year period? Now it's absolutely impossible for a middle-class family to afford a private college without racking up massive amounts of debt, which effectively puts a whole range of colleges out of reach of most people. So instead of making college more affordable, it's made it less affordable with the added bonus of giving new graduates crippling debts.
And while I'm certainly in agreement with you that colleges should not be about job training, the expectation of this level of indebtedness upon graduation almost guarantees that a student has to go into career-driven majors. Otherwise, he will not be able to make the loan payments. So a sophomore choosing a major at an expensive college has to ask this question: Gosh, when I graduate, I'll have roughly $100,000 in student loan debt. Do I choose mathematics or engineering?" See how it works?
I mean, I attended a small liberal arts college in the early 80s and majored in English. My parents had fallen on hard economic times, so I was going to have to pay for the place myself. I worked a full-time job to do it, but I managed to put myself through without incurring student loans. Today, having looked at the tuition of that same college today, there is no way that a student like me could do that.
All well and good. Very noble and all that...
but what about those who don't get what could be taught through high school?
I don't see many making that argument.
Rather than focusing on ways to prop up a means to pay the bloated costs that the university education has become we instead focus on ways to reduce those costs (and hopefully the bloat as well)?
Problem #1 is the woefully poor public school system in much of the country that downright fails our kids. I would consider the value of college as some in this thread has more if we taught some things in K-12 that we don't. This forum's subject of economic would be #1, along with advanced topics in ethics, philosophy, civics, the arts, as well as the practical applications of math and science instead of just the abstract concepts that meet the state's minimum testing requirements. So to have a better understanding of where I'm coming from in my opinion, I feel that the public school system is a failure by design that puts off much real academics until college and just focuses on meeting minimum requirements.
I do not think the college/university education system are perfect so I am perfectly ok with finding ways to reduce costs, but cutting student loans isn't the answer because it most directly affects those who need college the most - those striving for upward mobility. Something that I think we could all (mostly) agree that as a country we are moving in the wrong direction in.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
