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my question is, how do you see the big cities in the next 10 years?
depends on the city, and also depends on the field. i agree that rent is a HUGE deal for young workers. housing costs outpaced wages during the bubble, and never corrected. i see highly competitive, hard-lifestyle, work-your-ass-off jobs in Boston, SF, and NYC that pay $70k - $100k... and that really doesn't go very far in those cities due to the cost of living. You can find comparable (if not higher) salaries in somewhere like, say, Virginia, Florida, or Texas. i assume costs will continue to be high in NYC and similar areas, because so many people will sacrifice to live there.
Kinda makes ya wonder though... Weren't some of these kids working and saving their money when they lived with their parents, and maybe while they were in college? When I went to college, I always worked, sometimes full time and sometimes two jobs. Kinda explains why I never bothered to graduate, but I never had to worry about money. That never really changed throughout my life because I found how easy life was when you saved and didn't have to worry about money and expenses so much.
If these kids are all stuck home with mom and dad due to expenses, is that out of necessity, or is that just a matter of caution?
Seriously though, I do emphasis with many of my peers regarding the job market today, and the expenses they face. I would hate to be coming out of college with a pile of debt, high rental prices, and some downright crappy job prospects. I rent a studio that runs me $650 a month, and an average $25 electric bill. I'm told I'm getting a fantastic deal, but you can't afford that on the majority of the jobs available to young people today. Knowing this, I certainly can't blame many of my peers who can't get a start in this economy. It would be much wiser to find a job close to home, and live with the parents until they have the experience necessary to earn a living wage. As I've often suggested before, that might require many of them to redefine their career ambitions and take whatever opportunity presents itself. There are jobs, but a lot of those jobs are not considered desirable and don't fit their expectations. That's life.
Kinda makes ya wonder though... Weren't some of these kids working and saving their money when they lived with their parents, and maybe while they were in college? When I went to college, I always worked, sometimes full time and sometimes two jobs. Kinda explains why I never bothered to graduate, but I never had to worry about money. That never really changed throughout my life because I found how easy life was when you saved and didn't have to worry about money and expenses so much.
If these kids are all stuck home with mom and dad due to expenses, is that out of necessity, or is that just a matter of caution?
Seriously though, I do emphasis with many of my peers regarding the job market today, and the expenses they face. I would hate to be coming out of college with a pile of debt, high rental prices, and some downright crappy job prospects. I rent a studio that runs me $650 a month, and an average $25 electric bill. I'm told I'm getting a fantastic deal, but you can't afford that on the majority of the jobs available to young people today. Knowing this, I certainly can't blame many of my peers who can't get a start in this economy. It would be much wiser to find a job close to home, and live with the parents until they have the experience necessary to earn a living wage. As I've often suggested before, that might require many of them to redefine their career ambitions and take whatever opportunity presents itself. There are jobs, but a lot of those jobs are not considered desirable and don't fit their expectations. That's life.
Likewise, I worked about 1500 hours a year during college. It was enough to pay the rent and part of my tuition. When I graduated from high school, my parents put $10k in my bank account, enough to cover two-years of JC and two years of CSU tuition. They also paid for my health insurance and car insurance for the two years I had a car, and I was on their cell phone plan. Otherwise, I was on my own. Of course, I chose to go to a UC straight out of school and I lived in the dorms my freshman year... so I did come out of college with a pile of debt, about $25k.
When I lost my first career job, I moved to Seattle and rented a dump working a dead-end job looking for employment and lived in a cramped studio apartment $825/month including utilities that was more than half my monthly take home. Eventually found a job that paid a bit more and then was laid off from that. I saved during that time and had enough to go abroad and teach English for a year.
When I came back to the States, I moved back in with my parents for two years. I worked part-time and was enrolled in a vocational/certification program full-time at a public school ($1200/yr initially vs $15,000 for private, but it shot up to $5000 not long after). What I earned covered my expenses (cell, car, eating out, clothes, tuition) but I wasn't paying rent or utilities. I would have had to borrow more to do so and was a little older and wiser. I carpooled the 100 mile roundtrip with three other people.
In the 5 1/2 years since graduating, I've been in an accounting job (what I planned on) for less than two. My degree is a useless piece of paper. The most use it's seen is that a degree is generally required for teaching English abroad. Most of the people I worked with even in accounting and commercial underwriting had only an associate's degree or just a certificate. They didn't care about that as much as that I knew how to use Peachtree, SAP, and Sage -- something no accounting degree will teach you. They were all rather marginal positions that couldn't afford to hire a college graduate who expected a $55k salary and MBA-track advancement. There's still plenty of opportunities for people with ambition and drive even if the standard get a degree and join the corporate workforce with a defined career ladder opportunities aren't what they once were. Of the alumni I know, about half are doing well in traditional careers. Of the other half, about half of them are doing well in some non-traditional capacity and the other half are working at Starbucks-type jobs. A year after graduation, it was more like 50/50 corporate/Starbucks. Once you've been out of school and not in an entry-level corporate job for over a year, it's basically not going to happen. At least that's my experience.
Many young people end up moving for a job and leaving their mom and dad. You have to go where where the opportunities are. I relocated for $20k/yr raise to Dallas, when the other job offers were ok. A move doesn't have to be permanent.
I know somebody that moved to California for $150k for position at a Fortune 500 company and back to Texas to be closer to family, after 3 years.
Good point. The bottom line is the people in the high cost metro areas making $10 an hour either need to move, get better paying job skills, or both. If not, you can stay in Boston, NYC, San Francisco, etc. and be miserable. Your choice.
You can probably make the same $10 per hour in Dallas (or close to it) as you can in Boston. In my experience, the slightly higher wages offered for low paying jobs in high cost areas don't make up for the much higher cost of living. If you're stuck in low paying work, it's usually better to take the lower wage in a lower cost area. That gives you a better quality of life while figuring out your next move into higher paying employment.
I live in the high cost San Francisco Bay area and work in the public sector. If I ever lost my job, I know I'm not going to find an equivalent job with my skill set that will have the same pay and benefits...so if that happens, like it or not, I will have to move to a cheaper area out of state and will also probably have to retrain for another type of job. It's a major drag, but this is the reality of life.
From my point of view, I think a reduction in regulations would lower rental prices. The cost of compliance w/ the regulations in the city where I have my rental is one of the reasons I can't offer cheap rent or provide breaks for my long-term tenants who may be having difficulty.
I totally agree here. I think the most insidious thing about regulations is that they are invisible to the average person. People complain about what landlords charge in rent or the prices charged for homes...and there certainly can be some greed on the landlord's end....BUT what they don't see are the costs of the red tape/land use restrictions/zoning restrictions that drive up the cost of land (which drive up rents and home prices).
Depends how far you want to reduce them. Do we want to see places like this dotting the landscape of America?
We might be better off with roommates being the new norm. Reduced property taxes to match falling real estate values and incomes would be even better, but cmon, let's be realistic here ...
Eh....no need to go to extremes there. There is such a thing as a happy medium.
Likewise, I worked about 1500 hours a year during college. It was enough to pay the rent and part of my tuition. When I graduated from high school, my parents put $10k in my bank account, enough to cover two-years of JC and two years of CSU tuition. They also paid for my health insurance and car insurance for the two years I had a car, and I was on their cell phone plan. Otherwise, I was on my own. Of course, I chose to go to a UC straight out of school and I lived in the dorms my freshman year... so I did come out of college with a pile of debt, about $25k.
When I lost my first career job, I moved to Seattle and rented a dump working a dead-end job looking for employment and lived in a cramped studio apartment $825/month including utilities that was more than half my monthly take home. Eventually found a job that paid a bit more and then was laid off from that. I saved during that time and had enough to go abroad and teach English for a year.
When I came back to the States, I moved back in with my parents for two years. I worked part-time and was enrolled in a vocational/certification program full-time at a public school ($1200/yr initially vs $15,000 for private, but it shot up to $5000 not long after). What I earned covered my expenses (cell, car, eating out, clothes, tuition) but I wasn't paying rent or utilities. I would have had to borrow more to do so and was a little older and wiser. I carpooled the 100 mile roundtrip with three other people.
In the 5 1/2 years since graduating, I've been in an accounting job (what I planned on) for less than two. My degree is a useless piece of paper. The most use it's seen is that a degree is generally required for teaching English abroad. Most of the people I worked with even in accounting and commercial underwriting had only an associate's degree or just a certificate. They didn't care about that as much as that I knew how to use Peachtree, SAP, and Sage -- something no accounting degree will teach you. They were all rather marginal positions that couldn't afford to hire a college graduate who expected a $55k salary and MBA-track advancement. There's still plenty of opportunities for people with ambition and drive even if the standard get a degree and join the corporate workforce with a defined career ladder opportunities aren't what they once were. Of the alumni I know, about half are doing well in traditional careers. Of the other half, about half of them are doing well in some non-traditional capacity and the other half are working at Starbucks-type jobs. A year after graduation, it was more like 50/50 corporate/Starbucks. Once you've been out of school and not in an entry-level corporate job for over a year, it's basically not going to happen. At least that's my experience.
If someone's goal is a professional job(doctor, lawyer, pharmacist), then it's a requirement. While other jobs such as engineer, would be difficult to get without a degree.
It also depends on the city. Boston's workforce has a much higher percentage of college graduates than Houston. With HS diploma and 4 yrs of MS Access, I hit $55k in Houston. I have to compete against fewer college grads than in Boston.
Industry app experience is a difference maker. Many companies will not bring on a HS graduate in entry level positions to learn the apps, even if they have a cert.
Good point. The bottom line is the people in the high cost metro areas making $10 an hour either need to move, get better paying job skills, or both. If not, you can stay in Boston, NYC, San Francisco, etc. and be miserable. Your choice.
yes, but my point of the thread is that some of my friends in nyc and boston who grew up there, all their relatives are there, its hard to move out to a new city and readjust to what they are used to.
what i mean by failure to launch is that many of them can afford a roommate situation, and some actually do it, but it still takes off a huge chunk of money, they are better off living with their parents and share costs. at least they can share a meal, chores, etc. my friend in NYC pays 800 a month for a roommate situation that's not in the ghetto, he has been doing the roommate route for 10 years. still not married. it gets really old when your roommates do it with someone, when your roommates bring bad friends over, when they leave nasty stuff in the kitchen or the bathroom, or when your roommate is a total prick.
most of the big expensive cities used to be ok if their parents made little money, since in boston, san fran, nyc, etc still had ghetto's/bad areas where rent is still affordable, all you gotta do is keep the kids out of the game and hope no one gets hurt. and its still close to the city center. now, most of those bad areas are being gentrified, and a person has to live in a bad area thats far away from the city in another suburban town, with a very long commute to survive, and with that long commute it wipes out any savings once you factor in gas/commuter rail fare and time lost.
it seems like in the big cities, they only way anyone can survive is to be on goverment housing or have a really good degree making decent money. not everyone can get a degree, some financial, some just cant handle it. I have a friend in nyc that didnt get a degree because their parents pay so much in rent, he has to work and chip in for rent when he turned 18. forget about college at that point.. if he went to college he would of have over 50k in debt by now, only to live in a city that is so expensive and if he cant find a job, he will be more screwed with the student loans.
yes, but my point of the thread is that some of my friends in nyc and boston who grew up there, all their relatives are there, its hard to move out to a new city and readjust to what they are used to.
what i mean by failure to launch is that many of them can afford a roommate situation, and some actually do it, but it still takes off a huge chunk of money, they are better off living with their parents and share costs. at least they can share a meal, chores, etc. my friend in NYC pays 800 a month for a roommate situation that's not in the ghetto, he has been doing the roommate route for 10 years. still not married. it gets really old when your roommates do it with someone, when your roommates bring bad friends over, when they leave nasty stuff in the kitchen or the bathroom, or when your roommate is a total prick.
most of the big expensive cities used to be ok if their parents made little money, since in boston, san fran, nyc, etc still had ghetto's/bad areas where rent is still affordable, all you gotta do is keep the kids out of the game and hope no one gets hurt. and its still close to the city center. now, most of those bad areas are being gentrified, and a person has to live in a bad area thats far away from the city in another suburban town, with a very long commute to survive, and with that long commute it wipes out any savings once you factor in gas/commuter rail fare and time lost.
it seems like in the big cities, they only way anyone can survive is to be on goverment housing or have a really good degree making decent money. not everyone can get a degree, some financial, some just cant handle it. I have a friend in nyc that didnt get a degree because their parents pay so much in rent, he has to work and chip in for rent when he turned 18. forget about college at that point.. if he went to college he would of have over 50k in debt by now, only to live in a city that is so expensive and if he cant find a job, he will be more screwed with the student loans.
If you are only talking about some people who don't want to move and live in only certain cities. Then, it's not a whole generation. Many people with 10+ yrs experience can't afford to buy a place in NYC, San Francisco, or LA. In Texas, we have many transplants from the west coast. They can actually buy a house on their salary, even if it's lower than LA.
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I think you meant "empathize". By the way, it's also "debris" not "debree".
