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Old 02-05-2013, 02:35 PM
 
Location: NJ
22,697 posts, read 28,583,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmann View Post
Or predatory lending... why do some choose to overlook the for profit universities who have staff whose job it is successfully close big loans to those eager to improve themselves and become contributors to this nation?

There have been any number of articles written and documentaries produced about for profit universities and their predatory lending and how they walk away scott free after the ignorant sign on the dotted line.

Same thing happened in the mortgage industry during the GW Bush administration. Too many prefer to blame Barney Frank, but the truth is that the big banks walked away free of all blame, with pockets full of federal bailout money, and EXACTLY the same thing is happening in the for profit university system.

.
nobody forces these people to take the loans. the "predatory lending" thing is a bunch of garbage.

i do agree that the cost of education is way too high. a big part of that is student loans that allow kids to take tons of money and not really care about the reality of paying it back. that allows schools to increase their expenses and pay professors too much to do too little and build up big fat wasteful organizations.

you need to get rid of the government form the student loan business and dont protect student loan lenders from bankruptcies. you will see the money dry up.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:43 PM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,144,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
nobody forces these people to take the loans. the "predatory lending" thing is a bunch of garbage.

i do agree that the cost of education is way too high. a big part of that is student loans that allow kids to take tons of money and not really care about the reality of paying it back. that allows schools to increase their expenses and pay professors too much to do too little and build up big fat wasteful organizations.

you need to get rid of the government form the student loan business and dont protect student loan lenders from bankruptcies. you will see the money dry up.
What's a reasonable cost to education? Historically, the cost of education is low.... although it's inching back up to the norm.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:24 PM
 
243 posts, read 378,208 times
Reputation: 550
I know I'm the one who signed the paperwork, and I do keep up with payments on my 60k + private student loan for an in-state public school (and that was AFTER scholarships...), but I wish I had really known and understood the kind of debt I was taking on. At the time, $25 K tuition a year didn't mean anything to me and I thought it was a good deal because it was an in-state public college. I remember having to read about the whole promissory note process and what it meant right before I signed on the dotted line, but at 17 I really did not understand at all the enormous amount of debt it was.

What I would like to see is some sort of mandatory mini course or seminar for HS students considering college that helps them realize what a massive setback this debt can be to their future, and which also explores the alternative options including vocational schools, community college, and the military. I'd also like the stigma of community college being for "dumb" students to fade away, as room and board for one year at my university could have paid for an associates degree with a nice sum remaining. I'd put it like this to a HS student: tuition at this university for 4 years is equivalent to a brand new BMW M6 convertible. Tuition for CC college plus 2 years at a close in state university is the equivalent to a brand new Kia Optima. You get pretty much the same education, but the savings are huge.

I will continue to pay back my student loans because it's my responsibility, but if I had really understood what the amount was equivalent to, I would have searched for more cost friendly options. I won't pretend to understand about the intricacies of state budgets and higher education funding, but I would be all for more funds going to state universities to offset tuition costs for future students. We're educating our youth, and then leaving them with debilitating loan payments. I'm sure there WILL be tuition reform and student loan reform in the near future--I don't understand how it can go on like this much longer.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:29 PM
 
Location: NJ
22,697 posts, read 28,583,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
What's a reasonable cost to education? Historically, the cost of education is low.... although it's inching back up to the norm.
what are you basing your historical cost on? the cost has grown drastically over the last couple of decades. is it not obvious that universities have too much property, space, professors doing things other than teaching, etc. etc?

InflationData: Education Inflation
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:47 PM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,144,222 times
Reputation: 12779
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
what are you basing your historical cost on? the cost has grown drastically over the last couple of decades. is it not obvious that universities have too much property, space, professors doing things other than teaching, etc. etc?

InflationData: Education Inflation
If you compare the cost of tuition and median incomes from 1750-WWII to the cost of tuition and median income from WWII-Present, you'll see that the price of college actually dipped significantly through the late 40's and early 50s and remained relatively low until about a decade ago when they started creeping up again.

There are two things that are obvious. There's a lot more mediocre colleges than there used to be and there's a lot of overpaid administrators across the board.

In NJ, research professors aren't making a lot of money. A tenured professor at Rutgers or NJIT pulls in between $130k and $210k (includes research compensation). Associate professors make less.

Last edited by NJBest; 02-05-2013 at 08:55 PM..
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:28 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,447,751 times
Reputation: 7274
Quote:
Originally Posted by USA wayfarer View Post
I know I'm the one who signed the paperwork, and I do keep up with payments on my 60k + private student loan for an in-state public school (and that was AFTER scholarships...), but I wish I had really known and understood the kind of debt I was taking on. At the time, $25 K tuition a year didn't mean anything to me and I thought it was a good deal because it was an in-state public college. I remember having to read about the whole promissory note process and what it meant right before I signed on the dotted line, but at 17 I really did not understand at all the enormous amount of debt it was.

What I would like to see is some sort of mandatory mini course or seminar for HS students considering college that helps them realize what a massive setback this debt can be to their future, and which also explores the alternative options including vocational schools, community college, and the military. I'd also like the stigma of community college being for "dumb" students to fade away, as room and board for one year at my university could have paid for an associates degree with a nice sum remaining. I'd put it like this to a HS student: tuition at this university for 4 years is equivalent to a brand new BMW M6 convertible. Tuition for CC college plus 2 years at a close in state university is the equivalent to a brand new Kia Optima. You get pretty much the same education, but the savings are huge.

I will continue to pay back my student loans because it's my responsibility, but if I had really understood what the amount was equivalent to, I would have searched for more cost friendly options. I won't pretend to understand about the intricacies of state budgets and higher education funding, but I would be all for more funds going to state universities to offset tuition costs for future students. We're educating our youth, and then leaving them with debilitating loan payments. I'm sure there WILL be tuition reform and student loan reform in the near future--I don't understand how it can go on like this much longer.
While you have made some good points, where were your parents? IMO, parents should be making sure their kids understand the long-term decision college represents. I'm not against a hs course, but I also would never absolve parents of discussing the long-term implications as well.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:45 PM
 
1 posts, read 883 times
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[quote=chuckmann;28077360]
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquietpath View Post

Every bit as fair as the mortgage bailouts have been to those of us who had sensible loans.
I'm a first time student loan borrow and was withdraw from my classes had a death in the family and not sure how to go about I was throwen of course any advice
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:14 PM
 
243 posts, read 378,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
While you have made some good points, where were your parents? IMO, parents should be making sure their kids understand the long-term decision college represents. I'm not against a hs course, but I also would never absolve parents of discussing the long-term implications as well.
I'd say while they understood the financial aspect more clearly, they were very excited for me to go to a school with a good reputation. I was the first in the family to go to university, and I kind of think they imagined that a bachelor's was a ticket to a high paying job (ha!).

In a way I would have felt bad if I had chosen CC or the local commuter university--almost like I was letting them down. I graduated with honors, an above 4.0 GPA, in the top ten of my class, etc and my parents looked down on the local options because I was their little girl and they were proud to be sending me off. That's why I hope the community college stigma fades, because honestly I would have done just as well or better at this point in my life if I had chosen that route. It's why I would like to see schools implementing programs for college bound students so they can get a true perspective from adults who have been down that road, instead of relying on social perceptions or blind guidance from parents who have no experience with higher education.

I'm not trying to put the blame on anyone else--my loans are my problem--I'm just saying I believe a lot of students would have chosen differently if things were put into perspective. I always feel like I made a deal with the devil for 4 years of worry free financial aid in turn for decades of loan repayment with an interest rate that I hate. I feel really sorry for the kids who are walking right into it just like I did.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:23 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 16,447,751 times
Reputation: 7274
Quote:
Originally Posted by USA wayfarer View Post
I'd say while they understood the financial aspect more clearly, they were very excited for me to go to a school with a good reputation. I was the first in the family to go to university, and I kind of think they imagined that a bachelor's was a ticket to a high paying job (ha!).

In a way I would have felt bad if I had chosen CC or the local commuter university--almost like I was letting them down. I graduated with honors, an above 4.0 GPA, in the top ten of my class, etc and my parents looked down on the local options because I was their little girl and they were proud to be sending me off. That's why I hope the community college stigma fades, because honestly I would have done just as well or better at this point in my life if I had chosen that route. It's why I would like to see schools implementing programs for college bound students so they can get a true perspective from adults who have been down that road, instead of relying on social perceptions or blind guidance from parents who have no experience with higher education.

I'm not trying to put the blame on anyone else--my loans are my problem--I'm just saying I believe a lot of students would have chosen differently if things were put into perspective. I always feel like I made a deal with the devil for 4 years of worry free financial aid in turn for decades of loan repayment with an interest rate that I hate. I feel really sorry for the kids who are walking right into it just like I did.

I was the 2nd to go, but we did discuss the long-term payback affect of each loan..in real time. A colleague who can easily pay for any university for his 2 kids has told them he'll pay towards it the full tuition and fees of our state university, and he'll reward them later further financially after graduating if they use scholarships, work, etc to mitigate any loans they take should they want to attend a more expensive university. If they use loans for the gap, he has told them they will be on their own for the extra cost.

I have a niece who married too young, both are in college, and both are taking more loans than they need just for school to subsidize their inability to fund their living situation in any other manner. I cannot in good conscience say any portion of these onerous loans should be mitigated by others.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:02 AM
 
22,770 posts, read 25,202,065 times
Reputation: 14506
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The Fed can sweep this outstanding debt under the rug and let it be buried in the national debt.
in the long run this is the only workable solution. A lot of these people are going to die with outstanding student loans.
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