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Old 02-06-2013, 11:06 AM
 
22,770 posts, read 25,224,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
If you compare the cost of tuition and median incomes from 1750-WWII to the cost of tuition and median income from WWII-Present, you'll see that the price of college actually dipped significantly through the late 40's and early 50s and remained relatively low until about a decade ago when they started creeping up again.
that's an interesting point, I didn't realize.

however the nature of both the economy and the university changed dramatically over that time period, too. Early colleges were sort of frivolous, as I understand it, and restricted to society's 'white elite'.


Quote:
There are two things that are obvious. There's a lot more mediocre colleges than there used to be and there's a lot of overpaid administrators across the board.

In NJ, research professors aren't making a lot of money. A tenured professor at Rutgers or NJIT pulls in between $130k and $210k (includes research compensation). Associate professors make less.
I strongly agree with this.

Back in "the old days", the state would pay a pretty large share of the tuition for students.

It was only with the emergence of federally subsidized student loans that the state governments realized they could use the power of "cheap borrowing" to take the pressure off their own state budgets.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:10 AM
 
22,770 posts, read 25,224,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drshang View Post
Bailing out young people's student loan debt would be a far better investment than bailing out baby boomers real estate investments with all this endless QE.
True , but boomers vote, and bailing out their real estate investments allows them to retire in relative decency.

Young kids don't vote, so selling them out is much easier.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:42 PM
 
Location: New Jerusalem
172 posts, read 163,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi3 View Post
Each generation has problems. I would never have taken out loans to go to college. If you did, you did it knowing it had to be paid back. So do it and stop whining. Just because you exist, doesn't mean a free college education. Life is NOT fair.
For some reason I imagined Nelson from the Simpsons kicking Bart in the leg and shoving him down the street, and then pointing and saying "You shouldn't have been walking in my way, knowing that I'm a bully. Life is NOT fair. HA HA!."
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:32 PM
 
Location: NJ
22,745 posts, read 28,621,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
If you compare the cost of tuition and median incomes from 1750-WWII to the cost of tuition and median income from WWII-Present, you'll see that the price of college actually dipped significantly through the late 40's and early 50s and remained relatively low until about a decade ago when they started creeping up again.

There are two things that are obvious. There's a lot more mediocre colleges than there used to be and there's a lot of overpaid administrators across the board.

In NJ, research professors aren't making a lot of money. A tenured professor at Rutgers or NJIT pulls in between $130k and $210k (includes research compensation). Associate professors make less.
do you have a link with the data regarding cost of education compared to median income over time?

i think college waste a lot of money and those sound like high salaries for people who just stand in front of a class and yap for a few hours a day. but im not interested in setting salaries, i want to see the easy money go away from the students so they can focus on the quality of the education for the right price.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
11,920 posts, read 13,273,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
do you have a link with the data regarding cost of education compared to median income over time?

i think college waste a lot of money and those sound like high salaries for people who just stand in front of a class and yap for a few hours a day. but im not interested in setting salaries, i want to see the easy money go away from the students so they can focus on the quality of the education for the right price.
The consumer has the option of choosing cheaper universities. They can also attend community college to knock out the prereqs for pennies on the dollar. Upset over the high cost of higher education? Blame the consumer for allowing the price to skyrockets. It is true that the government is reducing funding to many public universities, which naturally means they have to raise prices for the consumer. What still holds true however... The price can only be supported by the consumer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
in the long run this is the only workable solution. A lot of these people are going to die with outstanding student loans.
For 20-30K? Only if they made an unwise decision pertaining to their degree choice. If they made some smart decisions, than it's a matter of financial prudence. Without discipline and research however, it is true many will have trouble paying back their loans. This is what happens when you hand many 18 YOs a blank check. Blame your government and special interests groups.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
11,920 posts, read 13,273,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
While you have made some good points, where were your parents? IMO, parents should be making sure their kids understand the long-term decision college represents. I'm not against a hs course, but I also would never absolve parents of discussing the long-term implications as well.
In many cases, I don't even think the parents have a clue. Many did not go to college. It's completely foreign to them. What are they supposed to say? Many assume college is supposed to be expense, kids are supposed to sign their lives away, and it's all business as usual. Remember, many of these parents "fell victim to" the housing crash, thinking insane pricepoints was simply "business as usual" in America. They don't know when they're being taken for a ride, and they certainly don't know when their kids are getting a bad deal.

Personally, I think it would be more practical if parents had put some money in a college fund starting from birth to at least help offset the high price. Many didn't obviously. Mine never did, because even in the 80's, college wasn't that expensive, and many jobs didn't require it. I certainly can't hold that against them, and they did help me financially to get my AAS degree.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:03 PM
 
22,770 posts, read 25,224,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
For 20-30K?
no, for whatever amount they owe. $25-30k is just the average. Many people owe more than that.


Quote:
Only if they made an unwise decision pertaining to their degree choice.
well, let's say someone went to law school, late in life, and took out $70k in student loans (which is the average for a public school.)

when you consider that (A) they might have undergraduate loans, (B) they might have children who need them to co-sign student loans, (C) they might have other forms of debt, mortgage, cars, etc., and (D) Law employment is in the toliet right now,

you can see that without the benefit of hindsight, it's not exactly obvious what a 'wise decision pertaining to their degree choice' is.

or another example, the $150,000 it costs , on average, to attend a public medical school. Let's say you're like a friend of mine -- smart, but developed psychological problems just after medical school.

Now you're in hock $180,000 , on average, if you attended public schools, and you can't work as a doctor, and you're 30 and can't get the debt discharged.


Quote:
If they made some smart decisions, than it's a matter of financial prudence.
right, everything is always that simple.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Tallahassee
305 posts, read 735,337 times
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People have been saying that my generation (the millenials) have caused this problem with tuition. I've also heard that we do need educated people but we also need ditch diggers, janitors ect..., and I have also heard that as long that as long as the government is involved education will be more expensive.

I'd like to address some of these points.

Saying that my generation caused this tuition explosion is absurd. Unfortunately, as a country it seems we do not value education the way we used to. One of the common themes we see among countries who are rising to power is a strong very affordable education often provided by the government. This is especially important in highly skilled developed countries. Low skilled jobs are continually being outsourced and it is very unlikely they will ever come back to this country, at least not for years.

As for the cost of providing affordable education, the state I reside in has a program that gives a scholarship to students who performed well in high school. This used to be able to cover 75% to the full cost of tuition before the recession. The state was able to due this while still having low taxes, and no state income tax. So claims that such an investment will take 50% of taxes are spectacularly absurd.

As for you business owners, I am sure you many of you sell great products or provide great services, but that means absolutely nothing if a whole generation is strapped in debt. Unless you sell a product people can't live without in time you will see demand fall. People won't have the disposable income to spend.

The effects of increasing tuition could be devastating. The alternative is not great either. Markets for low skilled jobs for the most part aren't booming and with the COL constantly increasing in many areas these jobs are becoming less viable options as well.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:32 AM
 
24,760 posts, read 26,848,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
I'd like to see the aging on these loans.
FYI, that's delinquencies, not delinquincies.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:29 PM
 
Location: 3rd Rock fts
745 posts, read 941,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi
...or another example, the $150,000 it costs , on average, to attend a public medical school. Let's say you're like a friend of mine -- smart, but developed psychological problems just after medical school.Now you're in hock $180,000 , on average, if you attended public schools, and you can't work as a doctor, and you're 30 and can't get the debt discharged
Are you sure the debt can’t be discharged? I recently heard a VERY similar story on the radio (Dave Ramsey): a temporarily disabled graduate (doctor) saying that he paid off ALL his humongous debt—in a short amount of time—& is currently practicing medicine debt-free. Is this coincidence or a strategy?

Most EVERYONE involved in student loans are @ fault here—the reality of moral hazard is savvy, common knowledge!
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