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Old 02-15-2013, 06:05 PM
 
Location: The Lakes Region
3,074 posts, read 3,985,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by french paris View Post
I think that americans have lost less standard of living than icelanders
So far.............
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:52 PM
 
621 posts, read 548,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
Iceland was small enough to stiff the rest of the world to buy time and handle domestic impacts... we can't do that.
We have a minimum wage law. With that law and a printing press to supply demand for labor, we can earn the money to start buying back our nations debts and repay our personal debts.

We can say that if it isn't worth $30 an hour it isn't worth doing in the US.

And we can do enough domestic spending to get full employment the dead weight loss of that very high minimum wage not withstanding.

We don't have to do it the way Iceland did.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:31 AM
 
18 posts, read 20,863 times
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Yes, It is right world should learn from Iceland to improve their economy.
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:41 AM
 
Location: West Paris
10,263 posts, read 10,026,300 times
Reputation: 24401
Quote:
Originally Posted by pie_row View Post
We have a minimum wage law. With that law and a printing press to supply demand for labor, we can earn the money to start buying back our nations debts and repay our personal debts.

We can say that if it isn't worth $30 an hour it isn't worth doing in the US.

And we can do enough domestic spending to get full employment the dead weight loss of that very high minimum wage not withstanding.

We don't have to do it the way Iceland did.

The printing press won't be eternal
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:22 AM
 
621 posts, read 548,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by french paris View Post
The printing press won't be eternal
Short term only. But it will get us full employment. With full employment, and the income to tax, then we can grow our economy in a direction that will return us to long term economic health.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:23 AM
 
Location: West Paris
10,263 posts, read 10,026,300 times
Reputation: 24401
Quote:
Originally Posted by pie_row View Post
Short term only. But it will get us full employment. With full employment, and the income to tax, then we can grow our economy in a direction that will return us to long term economic health.
I hope it for you but i am quite pessimist for US and Europa.
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,787,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by french paris View Post
Don't forget one thing...Icelanders have now 30% of lowering of level of life
Let's see . . . that means 200 cable channels instead of 300, two cellphones per household instead of three, more VWs and fewer BMWs, dinner without wine several days a week . . . .

An overwhelming majority of Americans could easily absorb a 30% reduction in their discretionary spending, and live in a house with 2/3 the square footage and 2/3 the yard/garden/horsepasture size.
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:21 PM
 
Location: West Paris
10,263 posts, read 10,026,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Let's see . . . that means 200 cable channels instead of 300, two cellphones per household instead of three, more VWs and fewer BMWs, dinner without wine several days a week . . . .

An overwhelming majority of Americans could easily absorb a 30% reduction in their discretionary spending, and live in a house with 2/3 the square footage and 2/3 the yard/garden/horsepasture size.

Yes but with the discretionary spending there are jobs..
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,787,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by french paris View Post
Yes but with the discretionary spending there are jobs..
So you think Americans ought to squander their resources and their labor and their time amd every discretionary penny to the highest possible degree, in order to achieve the ultimate virtue of civilization, Jobs?

There used to be plenty of jobs, building pyramids, and rowing ships across the seas in chains, but the human condition has now fallen to such a pitiful and deplorable state that there are more people than jobs.
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Ohio
18,123 posts, read 13,312,319 times
Reputation: 13977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy702 View Post
Iceland could disappear and it wont affect the world economy.
If Iceland burned down, fell over and sank into the sea, I don't see the world skipping an heart-beat. What does Iceland do, other than take up space and consume resources?

Okay, so they fish and we all get to eat yummy herring (or whatever). Look back at the Fishing Wars between Iceland and Britain, and Iceland and Denmark. The only thing that would happen is they would expand their fleets to fish the areas Iceland used to fish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy702 View Post
So if the US defaulted it would get no benefit because all its trading partners would crash down beside it making things far worse.
Well, no, if the US defaulted, that would mean instant cuts to Social Security, Medicare and the Railroad Retirement Fund. It would also mean Millions of pensioners and future pensioners who worked in the private sector would see their pensions disappear. And pensioners and future pensioners who worked in the public sector -- teachers, firefighters, police, public servants etc --- would see their pensions disappear.

Your insurance system would collapse. States and cities would economically collapse. Philanthropic and charitable groups would cease operation.

Why?

Because all of them own treasury securities.

Foreign entities only hold $5 TRILLION of your debt. US States, counties, cities, corporations and other businesses, money markets, mutual funds, annuities groups and philanthropic groups hold the other $6 TRILLION and then $4 TRILLION is your 130+ Trust Funds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Let's see . . . that means 200 cable channels instead of 300, two cellphones per household instead of three, more VWs and fewer BMWs, dinner without wine several days a week . . . .

An overwhelming majority of Americans could easily absorb a 30% reduction in their discretionary spending, and live in a house with 2/3 the square footage and 2/3 the yard/garden/horsepasture size.
That is all true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pie_row View Post
Short term only. But it will get us full employment. With full employment, and the income to tax, then we can grow our economy in a direction that will return us to long term economic health.
No, you can't.

Look at your GDP growth....

2001-2010 1.68%
1991-2010 2.55%
1981-2010 2.79%
1971-2010 2.89%
1961-2010 3.16%

1961-1970 4.22%

1971-1980 3.21%
1981-1990 3.27%
1991-2000 3.41%
2001-2010. 1.68%

Average 2.89%

When a State first starts electromechanical industrialization, GDP increases. It is not unusual to see annual GDP growth of 8%-10%, or even 12%.

But once the process of electromechanical industrialization is finished, GDP no longer increases at such high rates.

Agriculture is the first sector to industrialize, yet always the very last to fully industrialize. Why? I have no idea....maybe it's the nature of technology. Anyway, the US did not complete 100% industrialization until the mid-1960s when agriculture finished.

What happened to GDP since then? It's declined and went flat for a few decades and then declined again.

Why? Global competition...initially from Southeast Asia --- Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Thailand, the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia, and then China and Vietnam.

And then in this first decade of the 21st Century, global competition from an economic bloc -- BRIC -- and then the States they have been developing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pie_row View Post
We have a minimum wage law. With that law and a printing press to supply demand for labor, we can earn the money to start buying back our nations debts and repay our personal debts.

We can say that if it isn't worth $30 an hour it isn't worth doing in the US.

And we can do enough domestic spending to get full employment the dead weight loss of that very high minimum wage not withstanding.
It doesn't work that way. You cannot compete globally due to the tremendous differences in wages and other labor costs.

Increasing the minimum wage is suicide....it just means more workers in your economy can no longer compete globally, so they lose their jobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawporri View Post
Excellent points and Iceland is definitely a microcosm of the US economy which gives it much more latitude to experiment.
What Iceland did might work on a township, village, town or city level, but not on a State level.

Cities are corporations and they can file bankruptcy under Chapter 9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawporri View Post
Few realize though,that everytime the debt limit is raised, the value of the dollar declines.
No, it doesn't work that way. Real Inflation in the US is insignificant.

Since the US left the Gold Standard, Real Inflation has averaged 3% or less. That's outstanding and only 2 countries on Earth have performed better than the US --- Switzerland and some sultanate out in the South Pacific (I can never remember the name).

Cost Inflation? Yeah, lot of that going round, and depending on the commodity, it's approaching 90%, but the government has nothing to do with Cost Inflation --- that's all on you.

You cause Cost Inflation to happen. Really there is no such thing as Cost Inflation. That's just a special term I use here on C-D because the majority of people are too dumb to understand Inflation. Cost Inflation is a melding of Cost-push Inflation and Demand-pull Inflation.

Those have absolutely nothing to do with monetary systems and everything do with Supply & Demand issues.

Food prices and gasoline prices are rising due to Cost Inflation --- if you want it to stop, you have two choices: produce more or consume less.....like I said, that's on you, and what you need to produce more of is corn.

I suppose you could argue the government is partially responsible. EPA regulations bar new entrants to agriculture, and FDA regulations hamper small and family farmers, causing corn production to stagnate (or decline as they have the last several years) and then EPA fuel standards like Tier 3 reducing Sulfur from 30 ppm (under Tier 2) to 10 ppm drives up the price of gasoline.

But none of that has to do with the Federal Reserve.

Fiscally...


Mircea
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