U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-04-2013, 06:51 PM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,036,578 times
Reputation: 6377

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by treasurekidd View Post

[color=black][font=Verdana]I don't want a deficit at all, I want a balanced budget, and it's not impossible. I remember it actually happening not all that long ago. I would eliminate the deficit through a series of across the board spending cuts and tax increases. Defense cuts, discretionary spending cuts, LOTS of foreign aid cuts, and serious entitlement reforms along with meaningful tax increases on the wealthy, moderate tax increases on the middle class, and minimal tax increases on the large portion of people who currently pay no taxes. That's about as balanced an approach as you can take. Once the budget is balanced, I would seek to make it permanent by constitutional amendment.
So you want a fixed money supply? Or perhaps you would like to see private more bank credit? I am not sure what your goal is.


Quote:
That's totally ridiculous. Once the budget is balanced (see above), I would then impose a 1% national sales tax on everything except real estate, gasoline, healthcare services and prescriptions for the elderly and groceries. Everybody pays 1% on EVERYTHING else.
We can get to that later.

Quote:
I would also impose a 1 cent per share stock market tax on individual stocks, ETFs and mutual funds. All revenue from these two taxes would be 100% dedicated to debt reduction. Both taxes would be written so that Congress can not divert their revenues from away debt reduction, and that they both expire completely upon final retirement of the debt.
What will we use as money?


Quote:
The beauty of this plan is that as the debt is reduced, slowly at first but faster as time goes on, the government begins to realize billions of dollars in interest payment savings. The first 50% of the interest payment savings would be dedicated to further debt reduction, and the other 50% would be added back into the federal budget, allowing Congress to use the savings to increase the permanently balanced budget.
A simple plan - not easy, but simple. Anything is possible if we have the political will to do it. But so far, we the people haven't had that will, and so neither do our politicians.
That is mathematically impossible. You can't pay off debt when money is debt. Your plan is dead meat unless you redesign the money system. Are you suggesting that the Treasury create money? Are you for a gold standard?


When national debts have once been accumulated to a certain degree, there is scarce, I believe, a single instance of their having been fairly and completely paid. The liberation of the public revenue, if it has ever been brought about at all, has always been brought about by a bankruptcy; sometimes by an avowed one, but always by a real one, though frequently by a pretended payment.
Adam Smith

That was the observation of Smith.


I believe Marx answered why perhaps without even knowing.
The public debt becomes one of the most powerful levers of primitive accumulation. As with the stroke of an enchanter's wand, it endows barren money with the power of breeding and thus turns it into capital, without the necessity of its exposing itself to the troubles and risks inseparable from its employment in industry or even in usury. The state-creditors actually give nothing away, for the sum lent is transformed into public bonds, easily negotiable, which go on functioning in their hands just as so much hard cash would.
Marx

Its like trying to put gold back into the ground. Governments can't go into debt because the debt is too valuable and becomes part of the money system. It does not function as debt that can be repaid in the aggregate. Every time they could even attempt to pay it they crash the economy.
National Bank Act of 1863

"From this point on the entire US money supply would be created out of debt by bankers buying US government bonds and issuing them from reserves for bank notes...In numerous years following the [Civil] war, the Federal Government ran a heavy surplus. It could not (however) pay off its debt, retire its securities, because to do so meant there would be no bonds to back the national bank notes. To pay off the debt was to destroy the money supply.". - John Kenneth Galbraith


Your plan given those assumptions would destroy the money supply. What is your reply?

Last edited by gwynedd1; 03-04-2013 at 07:21 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-05-2013, 12:32 AM
 
1,437 posts, read 2,014,620 times
Reputation: 569
What do you mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by french paris View Post
It is logical.People will pay debt now!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 02:27 AM
 
Location: West Paris
10,263 posts, read 10,012,305 times
Reputation: 24401
Quote:
Originally Posted by va_lucky View Post
What do you mean?

Cut deficits by cutting spending and rising taxes .And hope the growth comes back
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 03:02 AM
 
1,437 posts, read 2,014,620 times
Reputation: 569
Ok, thanks for explaining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by french paris View Post
Cut deficits by cutting spending and rising taxes .And hope the growth comes back
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 03:22 AM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
5,170 posts, read 3,729,458 times
Reputation: 2546
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Your analysis is garbage. The issue is not and never has been the housing bubble. The housing bubble was created to distract people from the real issue of the ramifications of NAFTA.
The reason we cannot recover from the housing bubble is that we have only a fraction of the manufacturing base we had prior to it.
You are all over the place here, as if "Government" had the smarts to plant all this stuff. Hell, Government could not cover up the Kennedy assassination conspiracy after all
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 06:09 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
7,626 posts, read 13,994,344 times
Reputation: 18670
Quote:
Originally Posted by french paris View Post
It is logical.People will pay debt now!

Yeppers, too bad the gov is not working the same way....tried to rep ya but gotta spread the love first!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 06:52 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,122,639 times
Reputation: 5171
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
You don't even have an analysis, and you think to refute it with one line of your usual incoherence? There is no money to support the former size of the goods and service economy, and its easy to prove as I just did. Your opinion is comical beyond reason. NAFTA is a problem because of labor arbitrage. That can only exist because of differences in the cost of living. The cost of living is almost entirely a function of the real estate market. Therefore housing bubble = labor arbitrage via NAFTA . Where should I put my next factory? Where workers pay $100 a month rent or where they pay $2,000 rent? You are a laughing stock.
I think you need to go back on your meds, you are rambling incoherently.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 06:54 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,122,639 times
Reputation: 5171
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmann View Post
You are all over the place here, as if "Government" had the smarts to plant all this stuff. Hell, Government could not cover up the Kennedy assassination conspiracy after all
Who said it was the government? And by the way, the majority of people still think Oswald did it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 08:34 AM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,036,578 times
Reputation: 6377
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
I think you need to go back on your meds, you are rambling incoherently.
Cliche` is your addiction.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-08-2013, 01:23 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,739,847 times
Reputation: 22159
I think most Americans have no clue what austerity would really look like. A tiny cut in planned spending is not austerity, we have a very long way to go before.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top