U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-05-2013, 02:15 PM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,026,257 times
Reputation: 6377

Advertisements

China to Raise Budget Deficit by 50 Percent to Boost Demand - Businessweek

As I predicted, China is steering for domestic consumption. Its good to finally see that there are real Americans somewhere , even if its in Asia.


Henry Ford's $5-a-Day Revolution - Press Release


They had no choice. The housing bubble is ticking away there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-05-2013, 05:11 PM
 
1,862 posts, read 2,875,652 times
Reputation: 2107
As you "predicted"? Come on, this is no great surprise. As their incomes grow people there will consume more. That presents their economy with great opportunities for both Chinese and foreign companies.

Chinese are nothing like Americans. I don't understand why Americans delude themselves this way. The Chinese have definitely played this bizarre misconception to their advantage however. One thing you'll never see in China for instance, is the debt driven consumerism that forms the basis of the US economy.

The housing bubble concern is vastly overstated. China has plenty of wiggle room in its domestic engine for a soft landing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
China to Raise Budget Deficit by 50 Percent to Boost Demand - Businessweek

As I predicted, China is steering for domestic consumption. Its good to finally see that there are real Americans somewhere , even if its in Asia.


Henry Ford's $5-a-Day Revolution - Press Release


They had no choice. The housing bubble is ticking away there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 07:15 PM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,026,257 times
Reputation: 6377
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoutboy View Post
As you "predicted"? Come on, this is no great surprise. As their incomes grow people there will consume more. That presents their economy with great opportunities for both Chinese and foreign companies.
If you are going to make a comment, try not to make it completely out of touch. The article states that they are enacting measures to boost consumption with deficits and then you tell me it was easy to predict as if it was a natural consequence


Quote:
Chinese are nothing like Americans. I don't understand why Americans delude themselves this way. The Chinese have definitely played this bizarre misconception to their advantage however. One thing you'll never see in China for instance, is the debt driven consumerism that forms the basis of the US economy.
A deficit is the accumulation of debt. . did you read the OP?


Quote:
The housing bubble concern is vastly overstated. China has plenty of wiggle room in its domestic engine for a soft landing.
At 45 X the current wage? If they don't boost wages they have a huge problem.
.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 11:17 PM
 
Location: USA
194 posts, read 433,336 times
Reputation: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
A deficit is the accumulation of debt. . did you read the OP?
.
Do you mean debt is the accumulation of a budget deficit?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2013, 01:47 AM
 
4,174 posts, read 2,783,092 times
Reputation: 2629
China debt-to-GDP = 2%
US debt-to-GDP= 75%

Not exactly American yet. Then there is the issue of public vs. private debt accumulation.

From the article, "Boosting spending on the social safety net and education subsidies would reduce inequality and “help reverse the rising trend in the savings rate,”. Perhaps, what stoutboy was referring to when he said, "debt driven consumerism".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2013, 08:05 AM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,026,257 times
Reputation: 6377
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelBubble View Post
Do you mean debt is the accumulation of a budget deficit?
Yes. Its how sovereign governments print money these days. So what it appears they are doing now is to find some other source of money besides real estate credit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2013, 08:06 AM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,026,257 times
Reputation: 6377
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
China debt-to-GDP = 2%
US debt-to-GDP= 75%

Not exactly American yet. Then there is the issue of public vs. private debt accumulation.

From the article, "Boosting spending on the social safety net and education subsidies would reduce inequality and “help reverse the rising trend in the savings rate,”. Perhaps, what stoutboy was referring to when he said, "debt driven consumerism".

That is a horrible number to have for China. Their banking system is raping them.


All money is created as debt. Almost the entire monetary float is government debt and bank credit. So all that low number means is the expensive ponzi bank credit ratio is huge.


Are Chinese Banks Hiding “The Mother of All Debt Bombs”?
From the beginning of 2009 to the end of June this year, Chinese banks have issued roughly 35 trillion yuan ($5.4 trillion) in new loans, equal to 73 percent of China's GDP in 2011. About two-thirds of these loans were made in 2009 and 2010, as part of Beijing's stimulus package. Unlike deficit-financed stimulus packages in the West, China's colossal stimulus package of 2009 was funded mainly by bank credit (at least 60 percent, to be exact), not government borrowing. Flooding the economy with trillions of yuan in new loans did accomplish the principal objective of the Chinese government — maintaining high economic growth in the midst of a global recession.
Yeah that's real great, a money supply exploding on expensive bank credit for real estate ponzi schemes. The financial press has done a good job brain washing people that we should rent money from them.

That is why Japan as far, as finance is concerned, is far better off. They just have a nuke and a demographic problem.

Last edited by gwynedd1; 03-06-2013 at 08:23 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2013, 11:44 AM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,013,914 times
Reputation: 17978
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
China to Raise Budget Deficit by 50 Percent to Boost Demand - Businessweek

As I predicted, China is steering for domestic consumption. Its good to finally see that there are real Americans somewhere , even if its in Asia.


Henry Ford's $5-a-Day Revolution - Press Release


They had no choice. The housing bubble is ticking away there.
Two difference is that alot of their GDP is from infrastrucure builidng based on savings from citizens to pay for it. bascially they are borrowig from citizens like japan ;so owe them;not bondholders. They alos determine the payback rate.The problems start when you have to boorow from others by issuig bonds to foreigners. Grece borrowed for deacdes for bank who bought their bonds but that fainal made banks holding bad debt when it exceeded GDP.If you chack you will see that Vhina and japan are the biggest froeign holders of US debt.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2013, 02:02 PM
 
1,862 posts, read 2,875,652 times
Reputation: 2107
Westerners have since the mid-90s been predicting doom and gloom for China. Every one has been wrong. I suppose some jackball will finally get lucky and imagine he 'predicted' something when the Chinese economy eventually has a downturn, like all economies do, but it will have nothing to do with the veracity of the prediction. In any case, China still has plenty of room to grow within its domestic economy to weather any storm in the near turn.

Foreigners still can't invest there fast enough, and China has a problem to find enough worthwhile projects to spend all that cash. Must be a nice problem to have. Well, in truth, there are good places to spend that money, but it would involve creating a real regulatory and taxation scheme to fix its basket case environmental nightmare and to create a proper social safety net for all those people getting left behind in the new new economy. But then the foreigners would read the Chinese the riot act because their costs would go up, and the corrupt privileged class of Chinese could no longer rob their own country blind. So likely nothing will happen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-06-2013, 02:09 PM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,026,257 times
Reputation: 6377
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Two difference is that alot of their GDP is from infrastrucure builidng based on savings from citizens to pay for it. bascially they are borrowig from citizens like japan ;so owe them;not bondholders. They alos determine the payback rate.The problems start when you have to boorow from others by issuig bonds to foreigners. Grece borrowed for deacdes for bank who bought their bonds but that fainal made banks holding bad debt when it exceeded GDP.If you chack you will see that Vhina and japan are the biggest froeign holders of US debt.

Every region seems to enjoy its respective problem. Japan has the demographic problem. The EU has a euro problem and in some cases a socialist problem . The US has a balance of trade problem .



Yes China is a creditor nation, just like we were during the Great Depression. You might say China has no problem, but lots of Chinese may have a problem. The US as a country had no problem at all in the 1930s since wealthy people were doing well. Its just that many individual Americans had a problem.

China has their own banking system that is a problem and they fell into the same trap. They let that genie out of the bottle. When the bank forecloses on you, its a domestic problem.


Bankers do not create prosperity. They rent money(that they don't even have)while inflating money at the same time. Their loans do not fund industry, they just drive up real estate prices. If banks were prevented from any loan other then one creating capital with a stake in equity, it might be a different story. Otherwise they just increase the price of land and other monopolies. People wonder why food prices are going up and blame fiscal budgets which is chump change compared to the leverage forming underneath farmland. Untaxing the rich while putiing taxes on labor has added jet fuel to the land rent seeking opportunity. That is why Monaco real estate is shooting up in price.


China could do the exact same thing just printing money via deficits only at a much lower cost then renting it from banks. Bank credit just as randomly finds its way to industry as does counterfeit money with their unproductive, usurious loans. A monopoly going up in price and counterfeit both have no actual product in common. They would not need to do it in the first place were not the economy already priced with all that bank credit. Now they need roll off it because they cannot just end it unless they run zombie banks or go into a deep depression. So now they would need to print money just to retire bank credit. Da guberment could also shift tax policy on the ground values to stop this madness once and for all on both ends. Real estate speculation, the money printing behind it either skims the wealth from the productive class or crashes it all together when they catch on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top