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Old 03-10-2013, 06:25 PM
 
29,463 posts, read 33,715,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
If we could just pick and choose the exact classes we needed for a career, then no one would actually need a degree. But thats not how our society works. Nearly all careers need a title and a bunch of letters following it. After that they need certifications and exams. First real job was as an Actuary and as far as I remember all they wanted were the certificates for three exams.
Since you had passed the three exams prior to employment I am curious if you took them while working on your under graduate degree or between completing that and employment? Again please correct me but aren't there more than three exams for full actuarial certification? At any rate your certification may have contained the information about college attended and your score on those exams validated your skill ability so a GPA was not really needed. The test scores were a measurement of knowledge had. Also in the employment process most places have you sign the right to them to contact colleges or universities etc to validate you. They would be leaving themselves in a legal bind if something went wrong after they hired you and they had failed to verify. I mean there are financial consequences based on the accuracy of your work.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Blue Ridge
20,894 posts, read 22,693,303 times
Reputation: 8636
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Since you had passed the three exams prior to employment I am curious if you took them while working on your under graduate degree or between completing that and employment? Again please correct me but aren't there more than three exams for full actuarial certification? At any rate your certification may have contained the information about college attended and your score on those exams validated your skill ability so a GPA was not really needed. The test scores were a measurement of knowledge had. Also in the employment process most places have you sign the right to them to contact colleges or universities etc to validate you. They would be leaving themselves in a legal bind if something went wrong after they hired you and they had failed to verify. I mean there are financial consequences based on the accuracy of your work.
None of this really matters at this point as I'm on a different career path competing in the IT field.

And FYI FWIW since you've never been an employer, contacting a college/university will only get you information on if they matriculated or not and nothing else. Unless you request a sealed transcript to be sent out, the interviewer will get nothing. It same holds for previous employers. They will state if they worked there and thats it. We live in lawsuit happy country and people sue for the smallest things. The only way most companies will gain any information about perspective employees is having a person knowledgable in the field (or by a panel) doing the interview. The only times a more in-depth check is done is if security is involved. That requires an outside company to do that and its expensive. Most usually stop at the credit check and federal background check. This is why most smart companies have probationary periods and the work of all new employees is checked before it goes out to the field or client. This is the only true you to find out if the person hired actually knows what they are doing . Passing an exam only proves that you can read and write, it does not prove ability.

As to hiring people from outside the US, the US employer bids out the position to contractors. The winning bid is paid a flat fixed amount and that bidder hires a person to work for that company for lower than the bid. It follows the same lines as in housing when a contractor sub-contracts out different parts of the home to be built. The employer (or home owner as in example) only knows of the contractor and the contracted price. They know absolutly nothing about the supply process or subs.

As I said in the beginning I would like to work in the US, but US corporations do not play on a level field for Americans. most Americans lack the proper skills to work within the international rule book (and I am not going to explain it). So now I'm a contractor and whatever I don't have time to deal with, I sub out. Some weeks are better than others, but at least I control my life.

As a final note. If an American wants a good paying career/job, then they need to go where the jobs are. They need to think the way immigrants of the past thought. They moved on for economic growth and left behind friends and families. Friends and family don't pay the bills.

End of this tangent.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:27 AM
 
4,174 posts, read 2,785,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munna21977 View Post
Our Universities behave like greedy corporations. All they want is out-state tuition from international students and slave wages Ph.D. and Post Docs from India, China, Korea.
Very true. The percentage of foreign students has risen substantially, even in state funded universities. That may be partially due to the decrease in federal funding over the past 10 years. Be careful what you wish for.

Still, why wouldn't a university be expected to chase profits/funding like any other free market business? A real conundrum.

Last edited by shaker281; 03-11-2013 at 01:14 AM..
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:30 AM
 
4,174 posts, read 2,785,137 times
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If the US becomes less attractive to the best and brightest and other places offers more opportunity it could be a very bad thing for our innovation and productivity. We have always had the advantage of skimming the cream from the top.
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:20 AM
 
Location: Tianjin, China
3,062 posts, read 2,558,676 times
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No wonder why people are not interested in immigrating into America. What is the huge benefit? Freedom is dropping, salaries are stagnating, the justice system is a shame and the government is soon going broke, which means much higher taxes.

And to become an American citizen, you need to pay tens of thousands dollars, and spend many years dealing with legal problems.

The only people who would be interested in doing that are people from third world countries who have no other opportunities.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Blue Ridge
20,894 posts, read 22,693,303 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
The only people who would be interested in doing that are people from third world countries who have no other opportunities.
And they mostly come from India.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:57 AM
 
29,463 posts, read 33,715,394 times
Reputation: 11093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
None of this really matters at this point as I'm on a different career path competing in the IT field.

And FYI FWIW since you've never been an employer, contacting a college/university will only get you information on if they matriculated or not and nothing else. Unless you request a sealed transcript to be sent out, the interviewer will get nothing. It same holds for previous employers. They will state if they worked there and thats it. We live in lawsuit happy country and people sue for the smallest things. The only way most companies will gain any information about perspective employees is having a person knowledgable in the field (or by a panel) doing the interview. The only times a more in-depth check is done is if security is involved. That requires an outside company to do that and its expensive. Most usually stop at the credit check and federal background check. This is why most smart companies have probationary periods and the work of all new employees is checked before it goes out to the field or client. This is the only true you to find out if the person hired actually knows what they are doing . Passing an exam only proves that you can read and write, it does not prove ability.

As to hiring people from outside the US, the US employer bids out the position to contractors. The winning bid is paid a flat fixed amount and that bidder hires a person to work for that company for lower than the bid. It follows the same lines as in housing when a contractor sub-contracts out different parts of the home to be built. The employer (or home owner as in example) only knows of the contractor and the contracted price. They know absolutly nothing about the supply process or subs. My youngest is a security cleared Computer Engineer with a Masters in.

As I said in the beginning I would like to work in the US, but US corporations do not play on a level field for Americans. most Americans lack the proper skills to work within the international rule book (and I am not going to explain it). So now I'm a contractor and whatever I don't have time to deal with, I sub out. Some weeks are better than others, but at least I control my life.

As a final note. If an American wants a good paying career/job, then they need to go where the jobs are. They need to think the way immigrants of the past thought. They moved on for economic growth and left behind friends and families. Friends and family don't pay the bills.

End of this tangent.
You make assumptions that are not valid. I have hired many a folks most not needing a visa but some with. I am very familiar with staffing and my sons were checked to validate what I said. One of whom has years as a staffing manager now with hiring engineers. So I don't play the I don't know game. Your situation is your situation and you know that but there is a bigger world beyond you. My oldest son is a national recruiting manager for a Tech placement company which includes recruiting overseas. My youngest is a secured Software Engineer with a Masters in Computer Science and had things validated by his first employer prior to his first job etc etc. Companies and fields vary in checking previous employers depending on their hiring practice and the nature of market competitiveness.
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Blue Ridge
20,894 posts, read 22,693,303 times
Reputation: 8636
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
My oldest son is a national recruiting manager for a Tech placement company which includes recruiting overseas.....
He's what is called a Head Hunter. From my point of view he's a commissioned salesman. He doesn't bid on contracts, he shops for employees to fulfill them. About a dozen like him bother me every week. The salary offers are pretty weak. Ask him how much a Computer Engineer (Masters level) makes in Dubai compared to one in the US.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:11 AM
 
1,139 posts, read 2,729,090 times
Reputation: 788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
This is why, I a highly skilled American citizen who resides in the US, work in UAE. In the UAE they want quality vs quantity and are willing to pay for quality workmanship.
so you go where they pay you a good wage period. Just like any other immigrants be it from India or China or from the US and if UAE wasn't paying - where will you go?
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:14 AM
 
29,463 posts, read 33,715,394 times
Reputation: 11093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
He's what is called a Head Hunter. From my point of view he's a commissioned salesman. He doesn't bid on contracts, he shops for employees to fulfill them. About a dozen like him bother me every week. The salary offers are pretty weak. Ask him how much a Computer Engineer (Masters level) makes in Dubai compared to one in the US.
I asked him about Engineers in general and his company has an office in India. He agreed Engineers in India often come here and work cheaper he suspected in part because their education cost were less there and they had lower debt etc etc. They do background checks on all employees and verify all their educational data etc etc. My youngests situation is sorta unique because of his work history.
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