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It's not that complicated, just go after the employers, fine them and put them in jail.
Yep and its easier than goig after the people who smuugle them in.E;iminate the work and they will not come evetaully.If you can register guns you can register workers as it said alot easier.
Perhaps you should read what I wrote more carefully. There was a time when business owners were profiting by hiring illegals. In many industries today, you need minimum wage labor just to get by. You're not going to hire an American for minimum wage to do laborious, dirty, noisy, or otherwise unpleasant work. You might have to pay at least $12/hr until you find the American willing to do the job, but they probably won't work as hard as you need. Either way, you would lose business to the guy paying his crew minimum wage. Labor costs must be passed on to the consumer in the cost of the goods/services provided. If the consumer can find a cheaper business, they will. That's the reality many business owners face today.
In essence, the business IS doing it to survive. Their options are to compete by any means possible, or close the business down because they can't make a profit by hiring Americans.
I read it twice. And I understood what you wrote. I know why businesses hire illegals. And so does everyone else in the whole world. It is not rocket surgery.
I understand the business owners predicament. I understand why a desperate individual would illegally cross a border for a job too. I would, if I had no other option! And I agree the economics are complex.
Still, this statement was poorly worded then,
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire
... illegal immigrants effectively brought the market labor rates down to a point where you need illegals just to compete...
Because without someone to hire them, they would not be here.
Perhaps, you should write more carefully. Unless you intended to say you sympathize with the business owner and blame the low wage workers for the whole mess?
Whether it was profitable in the past and now an act of necessity is rather irrelevant. And it implies earlier greed, by those doing the hiring, created the situation as it exists today.
Last edited by shaker281; 04-04-2013 at 11:16 PM..
I disagree that "without someone to hire them, they would not be here" on illegal immigrants.
they also come here for free benefits, which are readily available-and which have been documented numerous times on this forum, and the women come here to have babies and for birthright citizenship.
the job market isn't so great that there is even a NEED for a driver for new workers.
part-time work is increasing, as workers lose their full time jobs and benefits.
as our job situation worsens (and it will), we will continue to deny the reality that is starting to slap this country in the face because people don't want to see what they don't want to see, or they are just too dependent to object.
just, for example, the deterioration of the black workforce:
Under Obama the Black Middle Class Disappearing
The Chicago Sun-Times
Since the end of the recession, which lasted from 2007 to 2009, the overall unemployment rate has fallen from 9.4 to 9.1 percent, while the black unemployment rate has risen from 14.7 to 16.2 percent, according to the Department of Labor. Last April, black male unemployment hit the highest rate since the government began keeping track in 1972. Only 56.9 percent of black men over 20 were working, compared with 68.1 percent of white men.
do you think this represents a healthy situation and a healthy society????
do we need more workers in this country right now, REALLY? shame on our leader and our representatives.
Interesting article, especially the 2 cents part.
Also, as always, it's interesting how over many blacks are so overtly racist and expected Obama to be as well. Although I do agree that Obama's policies haven't been of much benefit to the poor.
Hispanics have the highest employment rate, so yeah. More of them would be good.
Immigration has been good for the country, that is not the issue. The country has a right and duty to control who enters based upon their background and likely contribution or burden to society.
However, our country is not honoring that right and duty. Background or likely contribution is rarely a factor in the success of an applicant for entry. Most never get here because they are at the tail end of a 20-year waiting list, or have no relatives or sponsors in the US, or do not come from wealthy enough families to assist the process, or do not come from countries that we recognize as political refugee status.
Interesting article, especially the 2 cents part.
Also, as always, it's interesting how over many blacks are so overtly racist and expected Obama to be as well. Although I do agree that Obama's policies haven't been of much benefit to the poor.
Hispanics have the highest employment rate, so yeah. More of them would be good.
Obama certainly hasn't done much to propel the black community towards prosperity. Judging by the extraordinary low employment rate of black males, and their collectively high unemployment rate of around 16%, their position has regressed as a whole. Employers are demanding much more from their workforce, and expecting much more. Racist? Perhaps some will make the claim, but the high rate of incarceration certainly can be having an impact. Those with a criminal record are finding it incredibly challenging to find secure work these days. Even for a low paying retail position, most corporations are not going to hire someone with a criminal record.
And the unemployment rate for Hispanics is below that of African Americans, but considerably higher than Caucasians and Asians. What makes you suggest they have the highest employment rate? If anything, illegal migrant Hispanics may have the best odds of finding work. They are quite a bargain at minimum, or even below wages. They simply price everyone else out of the market for many jobs, regardless of race. There are many job adverts that are written in Spanish for the sole purpose of tapping into this bargain of a labor pool.
I read it twice. And I understood what you wrote. I know why businesses hire illegals. And so does everyone else in the whole world. It is not rocket surgery.
Rocket... Surgery? Two words I have never seen placed together....
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281
Because without someone to hire them, they would not be here.
Perhaps, you should write more carefully. Unless you intended to say you sympathize with the business owner and blame the low wage workers for the whole mess?
Whether it was profitable in the past and now an act of necessity is rather irrelevant. And it implies earlier greed, by those doing the hiring, created the situation as it exists today.
You're always going to have some crooked individual seeking to gain an ill gotten advantage. Give them all the opportunity, and someone will take it. I blame the few business owners who began this mess, but it was going to happen regardless.
Do I blame the migrants? Well, they are leaving the second most obese country in the world for the number one obese country in the world. Mexico is not some sort of 3rd world hell hole. Many parts of it are truly world class. The problem is it's a country of haves and have nots. In America, workers went through great lengths to secure the opportunity to work towards a better future. Great efforts were made to improve working conditions, demand better compensation and a slice of the pie relative to their individual contributions. Generations ago, these battles took place to make this a better place to live and work for future generations to come.
Today, we are seeing this progress dissolve before our very eyes. The migrants did nothing to contribute to the growth of the middle class, the improvement of working conditions, the creation of worker's rights. Instead, they chose to circumvent all of the effort. Not only that, but they are helping to reverse many of these strides made in the improvement of our society by pricing legal citizens out of the job market. By piggybacking off the efforts made generations ago instead of doing the same in their country, they are actually turning America into the next Mexico. One with a diminished middle class with declining purchasing power. A country where the wealthiest members of society collect the lion's share of the plunder. A country were the government is expected to take the lead role of wealth redistribution. And these people are getting even more bold, as they start DEMANDING rights, privileges and opportunity. There was even a TV ad in California where an illegal immigrant advocacy group was demanding "free healthcare" under Obamacare. How brazen can these people get? It's not our responsibility to fix all the suffering and imbalances in the world, as we can barely do the same with our own population any longer, and largely thanks to illegal immigration.
We are taking in the most impoverished, least educated and least skilled of their society. In this country, they siphon off more than they are capable of contributing. They essentially behave as a parasite which drags the wages down for all major industries they flock to. Look at the wages of any low skill job today. Compare them to 10 years ago. They have barely changed, and that's not even accounting for inflation. All due to mass migrations of Mexico's least successful, lowest potential members of society.
Who do I blame??? The government, first and foremost. Instead of attempting to do anything about this, they are now choosing to pander for votes. Even the republicans now are changing their tune due to obvious demographic changes. They are willing to throw their base and core principles under the bus just to get a shot at winning a portion of the Hispanic vote. And really, would any Hispanic who went through the hard work of coming here legally want to reward those who trampled the boarders of our sovereign nation? I find that hard to believe.
I blame the government for not coming down hard on these law breakers. Instead of punishing those who violate our country, they reward their cowardice behavior with handouts and talk of amnesty. Because after all, if you want to stop bad behavior, rewarding it is the best solution, right?
Our politicians are doing the most damage of all to what's left of the respectably paid working class. They are a small minority compared to the masses of poverty flowing into our country with ease. We have enough domestic poverty to sustain one nation, but apparently, the democraps think we need to encourage more. Our politicians are practically rolling out the red carpet for them.
What other country does this??? Go sneak into Mexico and see what happens
I don't defend illegal entry into the country. But, as far as illegal employment is concerned, without an employer, there is not an employee. Others who enter the country for different reasons need to be addressed as well. This is not an issue of weak liberal vs. strong conservative policy. The Bush administration had no better record on this issue than the current administration. In fact, it could be argued that the current administrations policy of going after employers is much more effective and less costly than early morning televised helicopter raids that rounded up small groups of workers for deportation. While it made great headlines, like building fences, both have been costly and ineffectual. Or we wouldn't be discussing this, would we?
The much higher black unemployment rate is due to many factors. One less obvious factor is age, black workers are younger than whites as a whole. And younger Americans have a higher unemployment rate than white workers. Then there is education, cultural factors, etc. In 1969, a high unemployment year, the unemployment rate for blacks was twice that of whites. Obama was eight years old in 1969, but still a powerful force apparently!
Should the US presidents policy disproportionately favor blacks?
Which of Obama's policies have led to "the deterioration of the black workforce"?
What dept of labor data shows the current unemployment rate at 9.4% ?
Enquiring minds want to know.
Last edited by shaker281; 04-05-2013 at 11:12 PM..
As to the middle part, telling me illegal immigration is wrong or bad is a bit of a straw man, as I never endorsed it. My point is that it takes two to tango. Yet, why do you sympathize with the people who are hiring these workers and contributing to the decline of our nation, as you so expansively put it? It is one thing to understand what is driving such behavior, it is another to assist it by not going after all parties involved.
As to the GOP changing their tune to pander for votes, besides the flaming hypocrisy of it all, it will likely backfire in a big way. The vast majority of the Hispanics will continue to vote Democrat. Also, eventually such policies will fracture the GOP, much like the Libertarians and Tea Party are doing already. Deep divisions will not enhance their position.
As to the middle part, telling me illegal immigration is wrong or bad is a bit of a straw man, as I never endorsed it. My point is that it takes two to tango. Yet, why do you sympathize with the people who are hiring these workers and contributing to the decline of our nation, as you so expansively put it? It is one thing to understand what is driving such behavior, it is another to assist it by not going after all parties involved..
We need a corporate death penalty for those hiring illegals repeatedly. I'm talking liquidation, seizure of assets just like a drug dealer, and a lifetime ban on any officer ever being allowed to be an officer at any incorporated firm nationally.
I would favor 3rd time offenders with each representing 5% or less of their workforce, 2nd offense if either >5%, resulting in an automatic, immediate death penalty.
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