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Old 10-25-2009, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
209 posts, read 584,911 times
Reputation: 87

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
Currency just represents wealth; it is not wealth by itself. The wealth is the business, property and efforts of the American people. The government must borrow and tax to have funds to spend.
I like it, nice statement.
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:44 AM
 
4,010 posts, read 10,206,112 times
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Keep in mind that until the 1960s there were actually two money systems running in the USA. One was currency issued by the United States government. The other is the private Federal Reserve fiat currency system that is operated and owned by the banking system. In 1968 the United States system was ended and left us with nothing but the Federal Reserve.

Keep in mind the Federal Reserve is privately owned and the only control the US government has over it is the President appoints the CEO, currently Ben Bernake. The money they issue is fiat money. It has no bearing on anything and is nothing but an expression of debt which is what the OP asked. They can print as much or as little of it as they like and this is controlled by adjusting the central bank interest rate. The current economic crisis was basically triggered by Allan Greenspan lowing the rates too much which led to the very over heated mortgage mess. It was not always this way. The US government used to issue paper dollars and they were based on the assets of the federal government.

Take a look at this $5 note from the 1930s and compare it to a $5 note you have in your pocket. There are a number of important differences but the two most apparent are at the top and bottom on the obverse side. At the top it says Silver Certificate, not Federal Reserve note. At the bottom, it says the owner of the note can redeem it for US assets, namely silver. These certificates were all invalidated in 1968 or 1969 though they are still good as legal tender as if they were a federal reserve note. I would add that you don't want to really spend one now because they are valuable as collector items. (Federal reserve notes are always stamped with green ink. Certificates are in other colors such as blue for silver notes.)

Owners of these certificates owned real wealth. Owners of Federal Reserve notes only own a debt relationship. It's a huge difference and one little understood by most contemporary Americans.

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Old 10-26-2009, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,841 posts, read 18,991,883 times
Reputation: 9586
lumbolo wrote:
Owners of these certificates owned real wealth. Owners of Federal Reserve notes only own a debt relationship. It's a huge difference and one little understood by most contemporary Americans.
And you don't see the government or the federal reserve in a big rush to educate the population about this crucial difference. Confuison and ignorance is the perfect climate to rob us blind.
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Old 10-26-2009, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
209 posts, read 584,911 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
lumbolo wrote:
Owners of these certificates owned real wealth. Owners of Federal Reserve notes only own a debt relationship. It's a huge difference and one little understood by most contemporary Americans.
And you don't see the government or the federal reserve in a big rush to educate the population about this crucial difference. Confuison and ignorance is the perfect climate to rob us blind.
Remember in the U.S., money is debt.
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:08 PM
 
4,010 posts, read 10,206,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
And you don't see the government or the federal reserve in a big rush to educate the population about this crucial difference. ....
If this is a question to me, then I don't understand it in the context of what I posted. Of course ignorance of the Federal Reserve is what they want and of course it is the way they rob us of wealth. The point, in regards to the OP's question is that money is not debt, but in the USA this is what it has been turned into.
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Old 10-28-2009, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
209 posts, read 584,911 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumbollo View Post
If this is a question to me, then I don't understand it in the context of what I posted. Of course ignorance of the Federal Reserve is what they want and of course it is the way they rob us of wealth. The point, in regards to the OP's question is that money is not debt, but in the USA this is what it has been turned into.
Money is a medium of exchange and a measure of value

Wealth is a store of value

Debt is the promise of future payment on specific terms

Credit is the extension of "goodwill or faith in repayment" now for the payment in the future on specific terms

In the U.S., debt is money for the fact that every paper dollar before it comes into existence has a treasury note, bill or bond backing it.
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,841 posts, read 18,991,883 times
Reputation: 9586
lumbollo...it's not a question. I was embellishing your statement.
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Old 10-30-2009, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
209 posts, read 584,911 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
lumbollo...it's not a question. I was embellishing your statement.
A very true statement, if we taught real basic monetary education in school including historic examples you would see much more outrage. Ignorance is another way to subdue the population.
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:21 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,411 times
Reputation: 10
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Have you all seen Renaissance 2.0? The videos start at the bottom of the page.
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:43 PM
 
3,853 posts, read 12,863,253 times
Reputation: 2529
Yup, its entirely true what you are saying.

IF we nationalize the federal reserve we could simply print the money to finance government operations. No need for taxes. The federal debt is at 15 trillion which is about the same as the money supply. If you were to print 10% of that amount you would end up with about 1.5$ trillion which is more than enough to finance the entire government assuming the necessary budget cuts are made.

This is exactly what this man is saying we should do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cq9yEVcGIU
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