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Not necessarily...we put everyone through six months of training after hiring. We had candidates who couldn't even do simple algebra applying for programming positions. Those people need more than a little training. We would estimate six months to a year before a new employee would contribute anything of value.
well i think what your company does is becoming less and less normal. i'm not saying we don't need to invest more in our STEM education, but there's a lot of data saying that employers are just too picky now and also that employers have pushed training out to colleges.
Any laws that we frame in the USA is supposed to be for the greatest good of it's citizens not for a small few in management to make a killing... the right to work opportunities in the USA is first and foremost for Americans,
I find it Ironic that any effort to favor American workers and Indian outsourcers scream "protectionism" BUT India is the MOST protectionist country of all. India had very restrictive visa laws.,. good luck trying to get a work visa in India, it's much tougher than the US.
well i think what your company does is becoming less and less normal. i'm not saying we don't need to invest more in our STEM education, but there's a lot of data saying that employers are just too picky now and also that employers have pushed training out to colleges.
I understand what you are saying and see where you are coming from, but I don't see a lot of data saying that. I see a lot of opinions, not data. I definitely could be wrong, but my experience tells a different story. A friend of mine from grad school said he came to the US to study because he couldn't get into a good program in India. The minimum score my grad school would even consider was a 640/800 on the GMAT whereas a similarly ranked school in India required the equivalent of a 780/800 to get in. How can American workers be expected to compete in the job when people in other countries study that much harder?
They say they are qualified and its easy to lie when you are from India about credentials. How are you gonna check? For every 15 people who say they are qualified in India you might get one.
Oh god, THIS! YES!
At a previous job I was part of the group that conducted interviews and gave technical tests. In fact, I wrote my group's technical test and we administered it to other database programmers in the company to get a feel for how they would perform on it. They aced it the first time, so I made it more challenging and got to an average of 75%. We then set the baseline expectation for an applicant at the 70-80% range. I thought this was more than fair.
Every single Indian applicant who took the test failed it. Badly.
Also, I think we were getting a skewed pool of applicants since one recruiter we worked with sent us nothing but resumes from Indians. Every last one was from an Indian. I refuse to believe that Americans weren't even submitting resumes for that position. We engaged the services of another recruiter, got a more diverse applicant pool, and actually found qualified applicants at that point.
The highest score we ever got on the test was an impressive 95%, and that was a black male applicant with an associate's degree.
I understand what you are saying and see where you are coming from, but I don't see a lot of data saying that. I see a lot of opinions, not data. I definitely could be wrong, but my experience tells a different story. A friend of mine from grad school said he came to the US to study because he couldn't get into a good program in India. The minimum score my grad school would even consider was a 640/800 on the GMAT whereas a similarly ranked school in India required the equivalent of a 780/800 to get in. How can American workers be expected to compete in the job when people in other countries study that much harder?
see comparisons to what is done in Germany vs. here. And if it is so difficult to fill jobs, wages should go up - but that isn't happening either. these Visas are just another way to keep wages down. I'm not saying the Visas are bad...but what should be happening in a "shortage" of qualified candidates is not. That's why many of us are not truly convinced that the argument made is valid.
see comparisons to what is done in Germany vs. here. And if it is so difficult to fill jobs, wages should go up - but that isn't happening either. these Visas are just another way to keep wages down. I'm not saying the Visas are bad...but what should be happening in a "shortage" of qualified candidates is not. That's why many of us are not truly convinced that the argument made is valid.
Wages are going up for certain types of jobs. If you look at data from the BLS website (U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics), you would see that software engineer's salaries have increased at 4x the rate of inflation since 2007 for American software engineers, just to pick one example.
I can't post a graph from it, as you have to use their data retrieval tool to get the information.
you would see that software engineer's salaries have increased at 4x the rate of inflation since 2007 for American software engineers, just to pick one example.
The BLS is wrong. I am in the field and I can tell you that since 2007 salaries have declined by about 10%. Since 2000 salaries have declined by about 20% nominal, about 35-40% inflation adjusted.
The BLS is wrong. I am in the field and I can tell you that since 2007 salaries have declined by about 10%. Since 2000 salaries have declined by about 20% nominal, about 35-40% inflation adjusted.
So you are saying in 2000 the software engineers were starting around 90-100k? Those with Master's were starting around 140-150k?
In LA/OC, in 2000, typical offers for someone with 10-15 years of experience was around $120k, now offers range from $85k-110k. However home prices are 3X-4X what they were in 2000, rents are over double and gas used to be $1.50/gallon and now it's over $4, so what is the inflation adjusted drop? You do the math!!
In addition, benefits have also been seriously reduced, fulltime offers are hard to come by and short term contracts seem to be more available.
Infact just yesterday I was emailed a job by a recruiter for Qualcomm, for a Sr Engineer with 10+ yrs experience, contract for 12 months, no benefits and rate was $42/hr - equivalent fulltime pay is less than $70k if you deduct for benefits and vacation time.
In LA/OC, in 2000, typical offers for someone with 10-15 years of experience was around $120k, now offers range from $85k-110k. However home prices are 3X-4X what they were in 2000, rents are over double and gas used to be $1.50/gallon and now it's over $4, so what is the inflation adjusted drop? You do the math!!
In addition, benefits have also been seriously reduced, fulltime offers are hard to come by and short term contracts seem to be more available.
Infact just yesterday I was emailed a job by a recruiter for Qualcomm, for a Sr Engineer with 10+ yrs experience, contract for 12 months, no benefits and rate was $42/hr - equivalent fulltime pay is less than $70k if you deduct for benefits and vacation time.
My brother just got a job with a consulting firm in Baltimore making 90k. Has summer experience and a master's, perhaps the equivalent of 3-5 years. According to CNN's COL calculator that is the equivalent of 110k in OC.
Maybe it is different in other areas of the country? I wouldn't choose one city and decide that speaks for the entire field I work in.
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I refuse to believe that Americans weren't even submitting resumes for that position. We engaged the services of another recruiter, got a more diverse applicant pool, and actually found qualified applicants at that point. 
