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Well, I think in most cases, it is made possible (for the Average Joe who came from nothing) by spending far less than what you make. Without any discretionary spending on my part, I have the ability to save close to about $2000/month of my income. That might not be much to some folks, but it's a good start.
A wise man once told me to always set aside 10% of your income and put it into savings or, in today's reality, a relatively secure investment portfolio.
Obviously, you are one of the "rich" that the democrats described, you know, someone who made over $75k/year. Honestly, if you can save $2000/month, you are one of the high income earner. The last time I was able to made that claim was I have no mortgage, no kids and living with my parents.
Obviously, you are one of the "rich" that the democrats described, you know, someone who made over $75k/year. Honestly, if you can save $2000/month, you are one of the high income earner. The last time I was able to made that claim was I have no mortgage, no kids and living with my parents.
We've witnessed trickle down economics working for a very long time now.
Conventional capitalism has of course long since squashed that theory.
IMO the reason for the ongoing and continual lagging of the middle class is based on a misunderstanding of our money/debt and money/tax systems. Most in the middle class don't understand, and a large portion doesn't want to understand what might go against their better thoughts, beliefs, judgements and ideology. The larger half of the middle class that doesn't or wouldn't support our money creation system won't or wouldn't vote to save themselves.
The poor mostly don't know, or don't have a need to know, as they are taken care of.
The rich either know, or blindly accept what's going on perennially in their favor.
You can thank to big government for that. Rich and power has an army of lawyers and tax attorney/accountant doing all their compliance and paperwork. So all they have to do is focus on making money. But the rest of us, we can dodge the paperwork and compliance by working for other, but that will never get us rich. If we decided to go out on our own, then we will be facing tons of paperwork before we can make a penny.
Like Obamacare that is coming into effect next year: 20,000+ pages of regulation. How is average Joes going to digest this. This is just 1 bill. What about that tens of thousands that were passed before this? Average Joes don't even read a book, average 200 to 300 pages a year. If you expect them to read a 20,000 pages regulation plus able to understand it, it will take them 100 years.
So, you tell me how average Joe, aka middle class can move up?
The same way I did. Planning, education, saving, investing, working, making prudent choices... They probably won't get rich. It may take a long time. But, as an alternative to simply giving up all hope, it is likely advantageous.
No one will ever have to read all that paper work. I don't read the IRS guidelines, which must number far more than 20,000 pages. I still manage to file my taxes every year using Turbotax and maximize my tax strategy.
I'll be blunt, the fact that the "average Joe" gives up before the starting pistol is even fired, narrows the field for those who don't.
Last edited by shaker281; 10-02-2013 at 12:42 AM..
I choose not to buy stocks or bonds. I choose not to invest. I'm perfectly okay with the fact that my total net worth is about $35,000, just as I am perfectly okay with not having a mortgage on my home and ~25 hectares of land (and I bought my Jeep and boat second hand and paid cash).
...
I'm totally okay that your total net worth is about $35k too. Me dost think you protest too much.
If there is any stacking of the deck, it is genetic and cultural.
Any person can choose to give up their monthly Netflix subscription and use that money to purchase stocks, bonds or other financial instruments to gain wealth.
How is the deck stacked?
...
You just answered your own question. Additionally race & social stratum (wealth) provide barriers or stepping stones as appropriate.
But, (in using the term "stacked deck") I was referring to the fact that large fortunes tend to take on momentum under the US economic system and evidence that points to a continuing concentration of wealth would appear to support that contention. Starting out with a windfall certainly removes many barriers. The fact that some achieve financial success despite the odds doesn't refute this. The fact some (voluntarily or involuntarily) fail to achieve financial success doesn't refute this either. The fact that some see this as political and use it to promote their agenda doesn't refute this.
I'm not making a moral judgment here, just commenting on what I perceive. The moral judgment comes from those who attempt to lay blame on the less fortunate for their lot in life. I no more blame the poor for being born into a tar paper shack in Appalachia, than I blame the wealthy for being born in The Hamptons. That part is just a roll of the dice. It is how they deal with their challenges that really matters.
Absolutely, there will always be wealth disparity. But, saying that everyone has choices and that some tiny percentage of those not born into prosperity will eventually pull themselves up by their bootstraps and succeed, simply does not address the question at hand. Which is, whether the continued (and seemingly accelerating) concentration of wealth in America, will be ultimately be contributory to the decline of the middle class. It is hard to surmise how it could be beneficial, when it appears to refute so-called trickle down theory.
Last edited by shaker281; 10-02-2013 at 01:13 AM..
2. But the real point is what is the OP going to do about it? You can't tax rich people anymore because the gov't already takes over 50%.
3. You can't demonize the rich what good will that do?
4. All the socialist programs like Obamacare, welfare and the rest of the wealth distribution schemes only keep people dependent on the gov't.
5. This all boils down to the lefts resentment for the rich so they try to enact more programs that do more harm than good.
6. Just cut taxes and get rid of all the wellfare. If the poor stay poor we can all feel sorry for them.
7. Yes come up with a government mandate to feel sorry for the poor. Just stop stealing other people's money.
1. I doubt that.
2. The capital gains rate is at 15/20%. Debates over capital gains rates notwithstanding, how does that equate to 50% taxation for people making the bulk of their income from gains?
3. You can demonize the rich. They probably don't even care, but it may do no good. They just think it is envy. They like that.
4. Or keep them from suffering and moaning and fomenting revolution.
5. Or it boils down to preventing starvation and homelessness.
6. How exactly will cutting taxes help the unemployed, homeless and starving children?
7. It is clear the only people you feel empathy for are the rich (being demonized and all). And having their "money stolen".
There must be government programs you support, like defense or infrastructure or education? So, just pretend your money is going to those things. And those commie leftie's money is going to feed hungry children. They should be ashamed! Feel better now? I know I do.
Last edited by shaker281; 10-02-2013 at 01:10 AM..
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