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Old 11-07-2013, 08:15 PM
 
Location: TX
795 posts, read 1,222,002 times
Reputation: 783

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We're really just talking in the context of income taxes.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:28 PM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,135 posts, read 21,878,713 times
Reputation: 23217
That we are in trouble is evident but I would much prefer a national charity to pay off the national debt be started. That way would be so much more friendly. First we need a change in attitude from our citizens. The present attitude seems to be to get everything one can from our government. Maybe the government could issue bonds so Americans can buy our own country's debt.

First our borders need to be closed and all those that do not belong here stop draining our country. Nothing is going to work until that happens. You cannot keep food in your home when hostile traffic is allowed to come through and help themselves to your pantry. I say take all the possessions from those found to be here without documentation just as our government takes from criminals found breaking the law. That ought to help clear out the parasites. You cannot stop criminals until you make it unprofitable for illegals to practice illegal behavior.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:26 PM
 
8,881 posts, read 3,930,702 times
Reputation: 1720
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
That we are in trouble is evident but I would much prefer a national charity to pay off the national debt be started. That way would be so much more friendly. First we need a change in attitude from our citizens. The present attitude seems to be to get everything one can from our government. Maybe the government could issue bonds so Americans can buy our own country's debt.

First our borders need to be closed and all those that do not belong here stop draining our country. Nothing is going to work until that happens. You cannot keep food in your home when hostile traffic is allowed to come through and help themselves to your pantry. I say take all the possessions from those found to be here without documentation just as our government takes from criminals found breaking the law. That ought to help clear out the parasites. You cannot stop criminals until you make it unprofitable for illegals to practice illegal behavior.
The use and value of Savings Bonds, and my worry about the current Mexican invasion are way way down on my list of concerns today.

But I can't even get by paragraph number one without my head twisting clean off!
You want to make taxes optional?
Or you want to create new debt to pay off our old debt?

Shoot! I'll give you 10 credits just for entertainment purposes! <LOL>
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:36 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,316,924 times
Reputation: 5175
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
You must have been asleep this year. The deficit has been falling dramatically which undercuts your assertion that the rate is accelerating. Those trillion plus deficits are a thing of the past.

Your further assertion that "increasing tax rates takes money directly from the economy which lowers both GDP and tax revenue," was exactly what the 1990s GOP argued. They told Clinton that raising taxes would tank te economy. The opposite occurred.

Whenever anyone writes about raising taxes, the right-wing counters with the 'even taking all the money of the rich,' narrative. However, just having the top 40 hedge fund managers pay ordinary income would raise enough to obviate the recent cut to SNAP.
Professor Kotlikoff: Government Conspiracy to Hide True Debt Burden | FS Staff | FINANCIAL SENSE

Here is some more clarification on the real debt burden vs. government advertised debt.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,061 posts, read 16,070,870 times
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Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
If you can stomach some reality instead of the CNN propaganda you live off you may want to check out the real numbers here. U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
Unfunded liabilities now stands at around a million per taxpayer, but hey; don't sweat it we will just borrow more to pay that too.. Just don't cry too much when they do the same to your 401K that you do to truth and reality.
Deficit isn't debt.

Hopefully trillion dollar deficits are a thing of the past... but so what. That's a bit like saying you're only spending 20% more than you take in rather than 30%. It doesn't mean it's sustainable.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,061 posts, read 16,070,870 times
Reputation: 12636
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Professor Kotlikoff: Government Conspiracy to Hide True Debt Burden | FS Staff | FINANCIAL SENSE

Here is some more clarification on the real debt burden vs. government advertised debt.
Liability isn't debt either. (A) the $217 liability figure is probably too high, (B) they're collecting money to fund most of that social security/medicare liability, (C) everyone knows that they won't fully fund social security and will cut benefits reducing the total liability eventually. It's just a question of whether they do it in the next 5-10 years or more in the 20 year horizon when it becomes insolvent.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:58 AM
 
8,881 posts, read 3,930,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Professor Kotlikoff: Government Conspiracy to Hide True Debt Burden | FS Staff | FINANCIAL SENSE

Here is some more clarification on the real debt burden vs. government advertised debt.
Future debt can be an obligation, but is not realized debt.
What happens if we have WW3 starting tomorrow? How much do we, or can we spend, to win the war and avoid annihilation?
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:07 AM
 
8,881 posts, read 3,930,702 times
Reputation: 1720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Deficit isn't debt.

Hopefully trillion dollar deficits are a thing of the past... but so what. That's a bit like saying you're only spending 20% more than you take in rather than 30%. It doesn't mean it's sustainable.
Deficits accumulate as National Debt.
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:11 AM
 
8,881 posts, read 3,930,702 times
Reputation: 1720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Liability isn't debt either. (A) the $217 liability figure is probably too high, (B) they're collecting money to fund most of that social security/medicare liability, (C) everyone knows that they won't fully fund social security and will cut benefits reducing the total liability eventually. It's just a question of whether they do it in the next 5-10 years or more in the 20 year horizon when it becomes insolvent.
'Everyone' doesn't know this. In fact IMO it's pure balderdash!
SS can no more become insolvent than we run out of money to fight WW3. It all remains a question of choice, and at some point how much real wealth our younger population cares to transfer to the elderly. Or not. But the money (solvency) itself is never the real issue. Money can be created, but our productivity is limited.
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:13 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,316,924 times
Reputation: 5175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Deficit isn't debt.

Hopefully trillion dollar deficits are a thing of the past... but so what. That's a bit like saying you're only spending 20% more than you take in rather than 30%. It doesn't mean it's sustainable.
What ?????????????? Deficit is the difference between what you spend and what you earn..... that difference is debt!
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