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Old 11-16-2013, 06:56 PM
 
11,904 posts, read 14,386,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longnecker View Post
This is a popular point of view. On the other hand the earth can supply only so much clean water,handle so much pollution and feed so many people.
But that means we need more water treatment, sewage plants, building more clean-power plants. Even more teachers. All this means more jobs. In the US, at least, unemployment is a crippling problem. We ought to have tax credits for having more children.
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:07 PM
 
Location: IN
20,178 posts, read 34,528,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
But that means we need more water treatment, sewage plants, building more clean-power plants. Even more teachers. All this means more jobs. In the US, at least, unemployment is a crippling problem. We ought to have tax credits for having more children.
And the recent trends run completely counter to that because the millennial generation often has larger student loan debt and lower paying jobs. Most new jobs pay less so they delay marriage or having kids until later in life. This, in turn, means lower overall growth due to a gradual shift in the prevailing social culture due to changes in obtaining employment that pays a salary necessary to attain a certain level of financial security for most people.
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
13,462 posts, read 15,072,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
But that means we need more water treatment, sewage plants, building more clean-power plants. Even more teachers. All this means more jobs. In the US, at least, unemployment is a crippling problem. We ought to have tax credits for having more children.
We do.

EITC checks pay out more for more children, dependent tax credit. Of course, someone has to pay the salary for all the teachers, pay the bonds for all the new sewage plants and power plants, etc etc. That's the private sector. The same private sector where millennial aren't doing so well as a whole and hence paying less taxes, probably less likely to be approve higher tax rates since they don't have lots of discretionary income.

Kids are expensive. It'd be more effective to just give unemployable millenials some shovels and pay them $12/hour to dig holes and fill them up again. You'd employ a lot more people that way. of course, that's really what teaching is too since I think we've actually broken through the 1:1 teacher to non-teacher ratio in schools.
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:32 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
26,893 posts, read 57,997,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
We ought to have tax credits for having more children.
The problem is picking which children to do that for.

Quote:
In the US, at least, unemployment is a crippling problem.
The over supply of people for the number of jobs that need doing is the problem.

The US is already over populated.
The specific number could be argued (some will say by 100 million).

The better educated and generally capable (ie those who pay their own way)
have by and large moderated their birth rates. The others haven't. Focus there.
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Michigan
2,198 posts, read 2,153,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
But that means we need more water treatment, sewage plants, building more clean-power plants. Even more teachers. All this means more jobs. In the US, at least, unemployment is a crippling problem.
What good are more jobs when you have more people applying for them? How is a higher population going to decrease the unemployment rate?

Especially when the people immigrating to the US are mostly from poorer countries and willing to work for low wages. Often willing to work tons of overtime or multiple jobs for low wages. And then they send much of those wages back to their home country instead of spending them in the United States. This sucks money out of the economy and depresses wages for unskilled Americans.

I've had a lot of Mexican friends who worked a couple jobs here for low pay and sent half their money back to their family in Mexico every month. Many of them saved up a lot of money here and went back to Mexico to retire or semi-retire. Where I work now it's the same thing only with Yemeni immigrants. Most of them work for a few years here and save up money, then go back to Yemen for a few years. When they run out of money they come back and do it again.

What would the unemployment rate be if we didn't have so many immigrants working 60-70 hours a week while contributing little to job creation in the US because they're not spending their money here? When they spend their wages earned in the US in Yemen or Mexico they create jobs for the Yemeni or Mexican economy, not the US economy.
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
13,462 posts, read 15,072,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EugeneOnegin View Post
I've had a lot of Mexican friends who worked a couple jobs here for low pay and sent half their money back to their family in Mexico every month. Many of them saved up a lot of money here and went back to Mexico to retire or semi-retire. Where I work now it's the same thing only with Yemeni immigrants. Most of them work for a few years here and save up money, then go back to Yemen for a few years. When they run out of money they come back and do it again.
Interesting how they can support themselves on half the money they make and Americans can't, isn't it?
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Michigan
2,198 posts, read 2,153,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Interesting how they can support themselves on half the money they make and Americans can't, isn't it?
Yep, the average American is terrible with money.
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Old 11-17-2013, 11:23 AM
 
1,302 posts, read 1,245,289 times
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Default The French, Germans, Israel, etc think so ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
I read a little bit on demographics when I can find something. Its interesting that the natural assumption is that declines in population are always bad. I don't think governments like them because it means fewer taxpayers. I don't think business likes it because it means fewer customers. But I guess there are some advantages to a declining population. Less need to use up natural resources. No need to build a lot more schools, homes, roads etc. I know Japan is going through this, and certain intellectuals are upset about it, but I'm not sure the common folks are. The more I think about it though, I don't see a problem with a shrinking population. Anyone want to set me straight.

A lot of European countries have subsidies for child bearing couples. Pretty soon the Israels will be a minority in their nation because of their lower birth rate.
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Old 11-17-2013, 12:34 PM
 
1,614 posts, read 1,684,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
I read a little bit on demographics when I can find something. Its interesting that the natural assumption is that declines in population are always bad. I don't think governments like them because it means fewer taxpayers. I don't think business likes it because it means fewer customers. But I guess there are some advantages to a declining population. Less need to use up natural resources. No need to build a lot more schools, homes, roads etc. I know Japan is going through this, and certain intellectuals are upset about it, but I'm not sure the common folks are. The more I think about it though, I don't see a problem with a shrinking population. Anyone want to set me straight.
It certainly doesn't have to be bad. However, we have an (arbitrary) economic system that is predicated on constant population growth.
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Old 11-17-2013, 12:59 PM
 
3,464 posts, read 4,308,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
look at the quickfacts census website state by state population age structure breakdown. That is some interesting general level info regarding the diverging demographic trends in different regions of the country.
I checked it out, but will take a minute to find state-state compares, lots of information!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
The problem is picking which children to do that for.


The over supply of people for the number of jobs that need doing is the problem.

The US is already over populated.
The specific number could be argued (some will say by 100 million).

The better educated and generally capable (ie those who pay their own way)
have by and large moderated their birth rates. The others haven't. Focus there.
I feel that we should offer a cash payment to people who voluntarily sterilize themselves. A cash payout of lets say, 5k or so would be very appealing and help curtail high birth amongst a section of the population that traditionally has been been a huge drain on social services, the "system", etc . . . A lot of undesirable peripheral issues like child abuse for example, would start to improve also.
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