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Old 03-18-2014, 09:38 PM
 
4,171 posts, read 4,411,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
Companies have a hard time filling open positions. Some of them hire others to find talent. It's mindboggling that with such a high unemployment rate and all the cynicism toward "job creators," there are in fact open jobs that pay decent salaries and no takers.

There are plenty of people looking for employment, but they don't have the right skills.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/28/bu...anted=all&_r=0
Both. It's a structural issue for the jobs and a socio-cultural values issue for the "Americans unprepared" issue.

While there still are jobs, vast amounts of them (Blue and white collar) are evaporating due to automation, (dark factories) enterprise software applications, various technology etc... The productivity efficiency gains make 'net' new jobs unnecessary and couple this with diminishing viability of a learned skill via education system, and the ability for a company to have the luxury to take a young employee or experienced employee and 'train' them is very low.

Thus, the companies under an 'amoral' business philosophy will simply often delay and defer hiring in the hopes of finding the 'purple squirrel'. Or defer fulfilling an 'expected' increase in activity / volume by getting the existing employees along with technological efficiency gains in some matter - to obviate the need.

There are vast numbers of Americans un -prepared for jobs due to a declining vigor in educational standards, and rather, to make 'the children' feel good about themselves i.e. grade inflation etc... and an undo focus on coursework that has relatively little merit outside of pursuing for personal interest versus in a classroom setting.

The fundamental work ethic is undermined by a socio-cultural mass conditioning of many to think only certain fields are 'sexy' and worthy of emulating. Or that stereotypes certain vocational activities as 'below' someone's standing - even though they can be viable careers and monetarily rewarding.

Poor societal rights of passage (think about it in the common American framework: drivers license, alcohol, drugs, sex) coupled with an educational system which seeks to prolong juvenile mindset and make most into Pavlovian consumptive human units combined with poor parenting (or simply neglected parenting) as parents economically are challenged to devote the time necessary to instill some common core values begets a distorted view between actions - consequences i.e. common sense.

This morning I had an anecdotal example provided by an old man who I met on the train to work. He hadn't taken the train in years (I gather he was about 80 still spry and sharp) and wanted to talk, so, it being a slow morning, decided to get a good conversation in with someone older and wiser.

Man was an electrician for 46 years stopped working in 98'. Said the local union has difficulty getting enough work but it is out there, though most who want to work have to be willing to go where the work is (Same reason historically speaking millions of immigrants came to America). In this case (NE Ohio) those who want work, have all they can handle in nearby West Virginia due to Shale 'fracking' industry. On the other hand, he said the classes keep getting smaller with those interested in learning the electrician trade. He said last three years, the classes have dropped from 12 to 7 to 3!. Of the 12 eight were sons of those in the trade.

When I asked him what the biggest problem was he said, "they don't have three things: Courtesy, Respect, and Consideration for the job". They don't come to the work with the attitude necessary to be successful. This man blamed it on the 'flower power' generation, as in his words, "They are now getting the level of respect (and lack of) from their children (and children's generation) they gave" and this in turn translates into the work place attitude. They don't come prepared and like that Baseball phrase "they don't respect the game". So, I surmise this dovetails in this 'type' of worker across different industries with the same problem. They have over inflated sense of worth due to an educational system that in many cases did not challenge them.

This is only for certain types of workers with this attitude mind you. In my employment career I see plenty of hard workers and those dedicated, but they are dwindling or being overburdened and burned out by work load - and in many industries (from talking with others) the institutional knowledge is disappearing when they leave. Now, in some cases the technology can overcome some of it, but not all, and this does not bode well for many industries.

At its simplest, I make the analogy to the basic math skills one was drilled to learn in elementary school age, which, once the calculator became allowed in classrooms, many students don't bother to learn. it's this dependence on expecting the answer to be readily available from something else rather than innately knowing (whatever it is). Now, this can be good in some regards if the individual workers are learning other things and becoming more valuable as 'human labor' by being multi skilled. Unfortunately, I don't think many think this way, rather, there seems an attitude of, "OK, now my job is easier and I don't have to work as hard / smart." Many threads in the Work & Employment forum seem to touch on this issue in various realms.

This is rapidly advancing the erosion of jobs because the business economic financial model will continually shed labor as it is the top cost factor. This will likely happen to a percent anyway based on the engagement of the large corporations in global labor arbitrage but it just makes it easier for the corporate mindset to do so. Just as in Economic analysis, there is the multiplier effect for growth what we have now across many industries is the decoupling of labor input from outputs due to technology enabling factors of output higher with less labor coupled with global labor arbitrage which means hungrier workers competing for the fewer jobs.

The final takeaway for this Q is to be a continuous learner, choose marketable / transferable skills (or more importantly - recognize what you do know, that is marketable and transferable) and have the attitude foremost to be resourceful and adaptive as needs change.

In the long run though the inherent problem will need to be addressed sooner than later because large disparity in populations quality of life leads to social unrest. And the last thing the old man said to me this morning FWIW was, "there's a revolution coming".
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:55 PM
 
28,593 posts, read 18,629,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1 View Post
Yes, I am comparing cherries to cherries. But I suspect the same trends trickle down to the apples to apples.

No, my point is that immigrants are not representative of the "average" of their home nation. Immigrants are always above average--they are self-selected. So you can't compare immigrants from one population to the general whole of another population.

Quote:
Are the children of immigrants more likely to move up the socioeconomic ladder than their American counterparts?
We have a lot of grandchildren of immigrants in the Millennial generation who are in the same boat as many other American Millennials.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen811 View Post
so we need
food water energy medicine :

meaning largely doctors,
engineers and programmers.
everything else is pretty much worthless right now.
We need even more plumbers than engineers, more nurses than doctors, and more wireheads than coders.

Doctors, engineers, and programmers are being outsourced to other countries.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:11 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,208,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciceropolo View Post
In the long run though the inherent problem will need to be addressed sooner than later because large disparity in populations quality of life leads to social unrest. And the last thing the old man said to me this morning FWIW was, "there's a revolution coming".
I'm not sure that there is a revolution coming. A lot of people say so, but how?

The Democratic Party's approach is to address the problem with social welfare. Maybe that is the solution at least for now. It won't make people happy and fulfilled, but it will keep them peaceful.

The affluent will also become much low key. There are big lifestyle differences among people of different income levels. Increasingly they run into one another less. They live in different areas, go to different places, attend different events, and vacation in different ways. Some people are careful so the visible parts of their lifestyle are moderated. They choose to drive an average or above average vehicle even though they can afford a fancy vehicle. They do not have to talk about their persona life. The affluent young generation today do not live in huge mansions. So there is much less display of wealth. They may have a lot of wealth in investments, but they tend to live "lite" life, simplistic, more recreation than stuff. The point is that the ordinary people get to see that wealth much less. It's more hidden these days.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:00 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,704,117 times
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People on this thread, keep saying if you want workers, train me. However, they also say as soon as I get trained, I am going to be looking for a better job. This is exactly why the companies will not train them. It costs a lot of time and money to train people with no knowledge of the field, especially if it is technical etc. No company is going to train someone for their competitor. They will only go back to training, when they cannot find someone with training already behind them.

A lot of the training, may take a year or more. Some requires a classroom setting such as college to train them. If the job is easy, and people easy to train to do it, then the company can train them. But the average applicant, wants to start at a salary and benefits of a trained individual, even though they would not be pulling their own weight for a year or two. They are not being realistic.

We see those that say I am not going to go to work for $35,000 a year, as I need $50,000 to pay off my student loans and live like I want to live. It does not matter that the average starting wage for someone with their degree, is about $32,000 per year. The got a degree that has no demand for it, and lots of other graduates, way more than jobs. They refuse to admit they took the easy course degree, and there is no demand for those people.

They would not go the route of finding out what jobs were better paid, and in demand, but went to school for fun, easy courses, and to party. Now they are paying the price. Lets look and see what each degree is worth as far as income. Remember, the lower the pay, the bigger surplus of workers with that degree looking for work. A degree in Child & Family Studies is the lowest income level and way too many graduates for the few jobs that are open. On the other hand, those with a Petroleum Engineering Degree, have them lining up to offer a job before you even graduate.

Majors That Pay You Back - 2013-2014 College Salary Report

A lot of young people, have to realize they trained for future wages and job prospects, that a large percentage of high school classmates that did not go to collage are already exceeding, and will never catch up with them in the field they are trained for.
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:20 AM
 
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The reason Millennials expect corporations to be disloyal is not because of how those corporations have treated them, but how Millennials have seen corporations treat their parents.
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:49 AM
 
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Its crazy that even "sales rep" is mentioned as having a shortage of skills. But I recently went through the initial training for a performance based 1099 sales job, they fired half of the class after the second day. Most of the guys could not cope with the sales role play, they were incapable of articulating a coherent sales pitch despite being prepared and given scripts, examples etc.That was a real eye opener.
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,608,382 times
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The problem with training a newbie employee and they watching him leave is most companies do not give the employee a raise comparable to what a competitor is will to provide. Companies want gratitude but are unwilling to provide loyalty and security.

Most companies could save a huge amount of money by firing middle management and paying the secretaries half the amount to do a better job.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:20 AM
hvl
 
403 posts, read 550,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
I don't think corporations are looking for primarily transferable skills. They want fit skills, recent, and relevant experience. Transferable skills usually mean unspecific. You can transfer analytical thinking for example. But if your employer wants programming skills, analytical thinking is far from mastering a programming language.
Smart people with experience in a decent programming language can usually learn another programming language quite fine. I didn't have any experience with the language I use most often these days but my precedessor was wise enough to see that I had the potential to learn our current language really fast, given what else I knew. I did learn it really fast without any problem whatsoever. Even if someone has no programming experience, there must be ways to identify those people who haven't yet done it but who could easily do it. With all of that said, I understant that people want to cover their behinds so taking risks with people isn't encouraged until there's such a shortage of workers that employers have no choice but to take chances.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:29 AM
hvl
 
403 posts, read 550,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
In a democracy you can do something about it. But unlikely in this democracy. The only acceptable approach toward undocumented immigrant is to welcome and help them. When you talk to people, you'll find that they tend to avoid the topic. Is it just our politicians? If middle class Americans are truly not happy a out these policies, why is there no movement? Why do they still laugh at those who are critical ? They are acting like they are benefiting from it. They like to add "oh I have no problem with it whatsoever." So defensive. Then it is good for them. It's peoples call.
I thought you were trolling about the mass immigration stuff before but I see that you're denoucing the typical middle american apathy towards it. I agree with you. People don't seem to care that large segments of the media and economic establishment have decided to replace them with a new people. Your average middle american would rather care about football, quarterbacks, barbecues, suvs etc. Your average middle american would rather be caught dead than caught reading a serious book about politics, nationhood, etc.
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