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A few issues with your analysis... First, our healthcare is vastly more expensive. Second, the USA would still pay more even if the USA and the UK had the same prices due to having 316 million people.
The cost was per capita !!
"our healthcare is vastly more expensive" That is one of the points. The prime point is US citizens pay more tax for healthcare than those with full NHS systems, and do not get it. You are being ripped off big time. You could have a full HNS and pay less tax for it. If you want to go private then you can pay - just like the UK. That is easy to understand.
Brits do not like to wait either. I never waited for an operation I had on the NHS. From diagnosis to operation was days. The UK also has private medical as well. You can pay the earth of you want. This survives on snobbery more than anything else. UK, French, German gov'ts do not tell Rx companies how much they can charge, they drive down the prices because of larger orders, which is normal business practice.
If patents on drugs were made to last only 5 years, the NHS would cut the total bill by 25-33%.
From the article: "Intellectual property rights are supposed to help inventors bring good things to life, but there’s increasing concern that they may be keeping us from getting the things we need."
Quote:
Uh huh... The only way to get drugs from the NHS is if they are on the approved list. Some drugs, particularly cancer drugs, are too expensive for the NHS to justify.
If the drug is not approved in the UK it is not available on the NHS or private. Some drugs are approved in the USA but not in the UK. Few drugs are not available on the NHS.
The point is US citizens pay more in taxes that go into health than those who are in countries full National Health Services. Most of these people in the US then have to pay private insurance to get healthcare. It quite scandalous. Have full NHS and be done with it.
Many people in the US agree with you. The problem is the ones who start screaming "socialism" when anything close to a single payer is suggested. Obama wanted single payer, but compromised with the the ACA because the opposition is just too much to deal with. Many liberals do not like the ACA because they also thought a single payer system would be the ideal. My husband is British and we plan to move to Europe at some point in the future. I've done a lot of research on heath care in various countries and it appears we can purchase private insurance that is very reasonable because the medical care itself is so much less costly than in the US. Dental care is another biggie. It costs a fortune in the US, but in Europe you can get equal or better dental care at a much lower cost.
Democrats recently had the power to do anything they wanted with our national health care system, and did. If you dislike it, talk to a Democrat.
How is this true? They had 60 votes for about 2 months (between Franken finally being seated and Kennedy dying) and that was if you included Lieberman who was an independent who personally caused the demise of the "Lower Medicare age to 55" proposal.
Only because there is no bargaining on prices by the government.
Then it should be cheaper. Economy of scale.
Last I read Americans go to the doctor less.
That is because it costs so much. The uninsured put off going to the doctor until they are really sick. Even with insurance, people can have huge medical bills (relative to their income) if they use the healthcare system. It is not a good thing that Americans go to the doctor less if it is because they cannot afford it or because they cannot afford preventative care. Prior to the ACA, approximately 45,000 people per year died in the US due to lack of health insurance. Hopefully this figure will change with the ACA.
Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't,
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs
How is this true? They had 60 votes for about 2 months (between Franken finally being seated and Kennedy dying) and that was if you included Lieberman who was an independent who personally caused the demise of the "Lower Medicare age to 55" proposal.
Lets review Republic America 101. Democrats had
1) A President in office
2) Control over the House
3) Control over the Senate, and could force cloture
This means Democrats could pass any legislation they wanted and they did.
If you dislike it, blame a Democrat. Not a single Republican voted for it.
Single payer structure may work in other countries, but not in the US, because:
* It has an unsecured border. Countries with the above practice are either islands or with relatively smaller issues with illegal aliens than the US faces.
* The Middle-class is a dying breed. This means huge drop of tax being paid to support this massive system. No one at either end of the spectrum contribute much. The Middle class is being squeezed dry.
* It has an over generous policy on immigration – many new immigrants pull their entire family tree here, and then utilize various sorts of loop holes, expecting the tax payers to take care of them. Absolutely unsustainable.
* Many Americans, while not taking good care of their own health, strangely want to live as long as they can, and believe in entitlement to all scientific advances. The focus is completely off base. What’s healthy, mentally and physically, is to live simply, and take delight in whatever you can do to ensure happiness of your own, instead of constantly looking outward for help, and for others to catch you when you fall.
Cherish yourself and be spiritually happy during your time here. Spend much less time looking externally for excuses and magic pills/procedures – pharmaceuticals do not wish you to get well, and the traditional physicians in the US are not trained to keep you healthy. All they provide are big bills and band-aids, which oftentimes cover up the traumas and make them even worse.
Be your own magic pills. Save that fortune for better things in life.
Last edited by Waterlily Pad; 04-19-2014 at 05:13 PM..
"our healthcare is vastly more expensive" That is one of the points. The prime point is US citizens pay more tax for healthcare than those with full NHS systems, and do not get it. You are being ripped off big time. You could have a full HNS and pay less tax for it. If you want to go private then you can pay - just like the UK. That is easy to understand.
Then post your source for us to critique... Youtube doesn't count.
Expenditure of selected health care functions by financing agents in health care - per inhabitant
General Government:
United States: 2155
Norway: 4625
Switzerland: 3418
Canada: 2301
Denmark: 3690
All financing agents (which includes cosmetic as far as I know)
United States: 5702
Norway: 5469
Switzerland: 5215
Canada: 3243
Denmark: 4644
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK
Brits do not like to wait either. I never waited for an operation I had on the NHS. From diagnosis to operation was days. The UK also has private medical as well. You can pay the earth of you want. This survives on snobbery more than anything else.
UK, French, German gov'ts do not tell Rx companies how much they can charge, they drive down the prices because of larger orders, which is normal business practice.
From the article: "Intellectual property rights are supposed to help inventors bring good things to life, but there’s increasing concern that they may be keeping us from getting the things we need."
If the drug is not approved in the UK it is not available on the NHS or private. Some drugs are approved in the USA but not in the UK. Few drugs are not available on the NHS.
I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. The NHS won't fund drugs that are too expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth
Only because there is no bargaining on prices by the government.
Then it should be cheaper. Economy of scale.
Last I read Americans go to the doctor less.
1. There are many reasons for more expensive health care. University education isn't subsidized as much as it is in other countries for starters. Also, most other countries have a clinic based model and don't have to deal with monopolistic hospitals.
2. Possibly...
3. Compared to whom? We are ranked ever so slightly below Switzerland at 3.9 vs 4.0. Canada's consultation rate is 5.5 vs 5.0 for the UK, but it doesn't seem to be the case that consults reduce wait times.
That is because it costs so much. The uninsured put off going to the doctor until they are really sick. Even with insurance, people can have huge medical bills (relative to their income) if they use the healthcare system. It is not a good thing that Americans go to the doctor less if it is because they cannot afford it or because they cannot afford preventative care. Prior to the ACA, approximately 45,000 people per year died in the US due to lack of health insurance. Hopefully this figure will change with the ACA.
The uninsured still have better mortality rates than the people on Medicaid.
1) A President in office
2) Control over the House
3) Control over the Senate, and could force cloture
This means Democrats could pass any legislation they wanted and they did.
If you dislike it, blame a Democrat. Not a single Republican voted for it.
They did not have enough to force Cloture because they had to rely upon Lieberman. Period. That was my point. And even then, they only had two months after Franken was finally seated and Kennedy died during the heart of the healthcare debate.
And the idea that I should "blame Democrats" because Republicans abused the filibuster but Democrats had one NON-DEMOCRAT (Lieberman) disagree with them... is unspeakably nonsensical.
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Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't,
