Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I believe that I said it in another post, but failed to say it here. What I was trying to convey is below:
My point is not, "because laws prevent it, it cannot happen" but rather, in the absence of any law against it, it cannot happen. There is no mechanism that will allow a business owner to charge, and get, more than the market determined price for a product. If you think there is a way for that to happen, please explain.
You seem to be mounting a campaign to abolish the word "gouging" from the common usage it has been understood by most people to represent. Good luck with that..........
Dudette (I don't know your gender but I'm a woman, so I'm just making the random assumption here), the market can't even avoid massive bubbles and boom and bust cycles, do you really trust the Invisible Hand?
Not only that, but the USPS' business was largely from delivering mail... you know, that thing that is no longer relevant due to e-mail technology? Plus there is the fact that Congress has constrained the USPS in ways no private actor would be subject to, nor in ways that are meant to benefit the public, but instead ways that are based on regulatory capture. Some are reasonable, but many are not. How the Postal Service Is Being Gutted Even so, USPS is way cheaper and more efficient than the others, even adding in the cost of losses.
There's a reason FedEx spends more on lobbying (24th ranked) than their Fortune 500 rank (63rd) would predict: FedEx Corp: Summary | OpenSecrets.
People don't understand the pension funding requirement the USPS face that no one else does
When industries are caught price gouging they pay fines because they are really just good people who are misunderstood .
I mean how could such a thing happen in a world where everyone, especially the wealthy are so honest?
It is just ludicrous to think that industry leaders could possible conspire to enrichen themselves at the publics expense, they are just doing God's work. Oh and just ignore all the evidence to the contrary below.... nothing to see here...move along.
The fact that you can't price gouge *infinitely*, because demand is not *perfectly* inelastic, and you don't have a *perfect* monopoly, does not mean NO gouging exists.
One of the typical rhetorical tactics of those trying to rationalize socially corrupt perspectives is to adopt an attitude that if something isn't a perfect remedy to what ever ill there is, then it therefore effects no improvement with regard to the ill. That kind of fall-back to black-and-white myopia is often the only way to insulate one's self from acknowledging realities of life and society that are in the shades of gray.
When industries are caught price gouging they pay fines because they are really just good people who are misunderstood .
I mean how could such a thing happen in a world where everyone, especially the wealthy are so honest?
It is just ludicrous to think that industry leaders could possible conspire to enrichen themselves at the publics expense, they are just doing God's work. Oh and just ignore all the evidence to the contrary below.... nothing to see here...move along.
If you are going to try to compare price fixing and a natural monopoly abusing its state granted monopoly power with "price gouging" as is being discussed in this thread, then perhaps you don't really understand what we are talking about.
Since you believe that price gouging exists, the following should be easy for you.
Tell me, specifically, what I need to do to be able to be a "price gouger" and exploit my customers today at my gas station and mini mart. I would like to be able to sell my gas at the "price gouger" price of $6-7/gallon.
How do I do it?
And after a hurricane, when gas is selling for $6 or so, I want to be able to exploit my customers and sell them my gas for $15/gallon.
Again, how do I do it?
Ask the gougers of coastal Mississippi how they did it after Katrina.
It helps if there is a disaster or an emergency, and your fellow citizens are desperate, maybe at the edge of starvation or freezing or in need of emergency medical care and will pay anything for gas to get to help.
Now of course the free market works fine and dandy in ordinary circumstances, day to day existence. For the most part. But then there are those quantity discounts, exclusive contracts, and all those other things that provide advantage to some at the expense of others.
In the end, it is the consumer who ends up doing the heavy lifting while free market people defend, explain, rationalize, and justify monopolistic practices of producers by saying "weeeeeellllllllll, you as the consumer have choice".
Take it or leave it. That's our choice.
And in emergencies and disasters? Well, we as a nation, we as a society, are far better off when we help eachother out. But there ARE gougers, who work to the detriment of their fellow citizens in such situations. I have not researched it, but I wonder if those Mississippi gougers got their comeuppance from their fellow citizens, and maybe were run out of town on rails.
Ask the gougers of coastal Mississippi how they did it after Katrina.
It helps if there is a disaster or an emergency, and your fellow citizens are desperate, maybe at the edge of starvation or freezing or in need of emergency medical care and will pay anything for gas to get to help.
Now of course the free market works fine and dandy in ordinary circumstances, day to day existence. For the most part. But then there are those quantity discounts, exclusive contracts, and all those other things that provide advantage to some at the expense of others.
In the end, it is the consumer who ends up doing the heavy lifting while free market people defend, explain, rationalize, and justify monopolistic practices of producers by saying "weeeeeellllllllll, you as the consumer have choice".
Take it or leave it. That's our choice.
And in emergencies and disasters? Well, we as a nation, we as a society, are far better off when we help eachother out. But there ARE gougers, who work to the detriment of their fellow citizens in such situations. I have not researched it, but I wonder if those Mississippi gougers got their comeuppance from their fellow citizens, and maybe were run out of town on rails.
While you quoted my challenge, you completely failed to address it. Care to try again?
Quote:
Since you believe that price gouging exists, the following should be easy for you.
Tell me, specifically, what I need to do to be able to be a "price gouger" and exploit my customers today at my gas station and mini mart. I would like to be able to sell my gas at the "price gouger" price of $6-7/gallon.
How do I do it?
And after a hurricane, when gas is selling for $6 or so, I want to be able to exploit my customers and sell them my gas for $15/gallon.
Again, how do I do it?
Explain how I as a price gouger can charge, and get, more than the market determined price for my products.
I have put forth that challenge multiple times in this thread, and while several people have danced around it, no one has specifically addressed it. It should be a very easy question to answer for anyone that believes it is possible to price gouge.
While you quoted my challenge, you completely failed to address it. Care to try again?
Explain how I as a price gouger can charge, and get, more than the market determined price for my products.
I have put forth that challenge multiple times in this thread, and while several people have danced around it, no one has specifically addressed it. It should be a very easy question to answer for anyone that believes it is possible to price gouge.
You yourself fail to address anything either.
In Mississippi, before Katrina, gas was neighborhood 2 bucks a gallon. After Katrina there were some who began selling at 10. Market price? Or gouging?
You asked the wrong question because you based it upon an a priori assumption that whatever price any producer sets is the market price.
In the Mississippi example, the market price was 2 bucks. Supply had not changed. Maybe future supply was in question, but realistically, how long would it take for more fuel to arrive? 2 days? A week? The gougers did not wait to determine "the market" price. They decided to screw their friends and neighbors by deliberately creating imaginary shortages. They could just as easily rations by amount of purchase, with exceptions to those known to be in dire straights. You forget that Mississippi is a small state and in most places, almost everyone knows everyone.
There were, IIRC, reports of gougers selling what was 79 cent bottles of water for 5 bucks. I call that gouging. Fortunately, there were plenty of volunteers who were trucking in pickup truck and van loads of bottled water which they handed out for free in hard hit areas like Pass Christian and Waveland.
So stop being silly,and stop pretending that there is no such thing as gouging. Do a little research on what HAS happened in emergency and disaster situations. Stop throwing out silly hypotheticals that have no basis in reality.
In Mississippi, before Katrina, gas was neighborhood 2 bucks a gallon. After Katrina there were some who began selling at 10. Market price? Or gouging?
The market conditions changed as a result of the hurricane. If gas was being exchanged for $10/gallon, that was the market price. And the question is, if $10/gallon was the market price, why weren't the "gougers" charging, and getting $15, or $20/gallon?
Quote:
You asked the wrong question because you based it upon an a priori assumption that whatever price any producer sets is the market price.
Nope. The market price is the price at which goods change hands between a willing seller and a willing buyer, NOT "whatever price any producer sets."
Quote:
In the Mississippi example, the market price was 2 bucks.
Prior to the hurricane.
Quote:
Supply had not changed.
Yes it had. The hurricane caused a change in supply, shifting the supply curve up and to the left, resulting in a new, higher, equilibrium price. That is in fact what happened, and it is perfectly in sync with the basic principles of Econ 101.
Quote:
Maybe future supply was in question, but realistically, how long would it take for more fuel to arrive? 2 days? A week? The gougers did not wait to determine "the market" price.
One doesn't need to wait to determine market price. The market does a very good job at accomplishing this without much of any wait at all.
Quote:
They decided to screw their friends and neighbors by deliberately creating imaginary shortages.
Why don't you tell us about how the "gougers" created imaginary shortages. This should be fun.
Quote:
They could just as easily rations by amount of purchase, with exceptions to those known to be in dire straights. You forget that Mississippi is a small state and in most places, almost everyone knows everyone.
The new, higher market price accomplishes the rationing without any further intervention required.
Quote:
There were, IIRC, reports of gougers selling what was 79 cent bottles of water for 5 bucks. I call that gouging. Fortunately, there were plenty of volunteers who were trucking in pickup truck and van loads of bottled water which they handed out for free in hard hit areas like Pass Christian and Waveland.
If water was available for free, how would anyone be able to sell water at $5? Think this through, it isn't that hard.
Quote:
So stop being silly,and stop pretending that there is no such thing as gouging. Do a little research on what HAS happened in emergency and disaster situations. Stop throwing out silly hypotheticals that have no basis in reality.
The only silliness in this thread is on the part of those whose "understanding" of market principles is emotion based, rather than fact based. There is nothing hypothetical about my arguments.
I'll ask the question again, as again, you have failed to answer it.
"How can I exploit my customers and charge, and get, more than the market determined price for my goods?"
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
