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Old 04-21-2014, 11:44 AM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,344,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aplcr0331 View Post
And once the poor win, they always-always join the other "team". Weird.
Sure....why would they not???
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Montana
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My brother-in-law is a 1% guy, and whenever I asked him about one of his "toys" he would always say: "You can have anything you want, but you can't have everything you want."

Even the ultra rich have limits.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aplcr0331 View Post
Idiot 1 - Has an idea, works hard, and starts a business (he invented the SuperSoaker). He employs Idiot 2 CEO. Idiot 3 is an IRS Tax Collector. Idiots 4 and 5 have no skills, never learned anything, hate Idiots 1 and 2 because they're "rich" who only got that way by opressing Idiots 4 and 5. Government knows they can get Idiot 4 and 5 to vote for them and takes away income from Idiots 1 and 2 giving a little bit, just enough, to Idiot 4 and 5 to placate them and guarantee future votes.
Not so fast.....Idiot 1 has total control over what the other know.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:53 AM
 
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Its pretty much like competing with your parents. Until you become a adult with dependents you can support not likely to even be in competition.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:57 AM
 
459 posts, read 484,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aplcr0331 View Post
And once the poor win, they always-always join the other "team". Weird.
The delusion of the self-made man becomes a religion. If one wins, it was because of some special internal motivation. They will rarely admit that it was luck, timing, or even unearned talent (not everyone has the same skills).

I'm no longer a religious person, but Qoholeth's speech in the book of Ecclesiastes has always summed it nicely:

"I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all."
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:10 PM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,344,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs View Post
The delusion of the self-made man becomes a religion. If one wins, it was because of some special internal motivation. They will rarely admit that it was luck, timing, or even unearned talent (not everyone has the same skills).

I'm no longer a religious person, but Qoholeth's speech in the book of Ecclesiastes has always summed it nicely:

"I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all."
Luck...check...I made my own.

Timing....check...I know when the need was there.

Unearned talent...well...if you call working shoveling mud 15 hours a day in the heat and cold two years unearned......shame on you.

Last edited by Driller1; 04-21-2014 at 01:08 PM..
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:50 PM
 
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The whole notion of "class warfare" and "class struggle" comes out of Social Darwinism, a school of Evolution Theory based on the principle of "survival of the fittest." In this theory, the elites fight to hold on to power and wealth while the poor (also considered less deserving and less developed) struggle to take what they have.

That philosophy fueled Hitler's hatred of the Jews. He saw them as an undeserving underclass that was undermining and stealing from the "elite" of Germany. Because Evolution justifies (and glorifies) "class warfare" Hitler saw it as his right to exterminate, especially through warfare, any people he considered a threat to his elite class.

The idea of "righteous" class warfare has fueled many genocides and ethnic cleansing pograms in the 20th and 21st century. It is a "high-sounding" but dangerous philosophy that allows the "educated" man to justify his hatred and oppression of the so-called "underclasses." It validates their flawed belief that the poor are poor because they are somehow less deserving and less moral than the elite. Nothing good has come from exploiting the deeply flawed and dangerous philosophy of "class warfare."
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driller1 View Post
Luck...check...I made my own.

Timing....check...I know when the need was there.

Unearned talent...well...if you call working shoveling mud 15 hours a day in the heat and cold two years unearned......shame on you.

Way to prove that poster's point.
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Durham, NC
2,024 posts, read 5,915,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aplcr0331 View Post
And once the poor win, they always-always join the other "team". Weird.
Not always true. My wife grew up in a very poor household, surviving on welfare assistance and food stamps; not enough food to eat; depravation, domestic violence (husband on mother), and the like were routine occurrences. Worked 15-20 hours a week starting at age 13 to help bring money into the family.

She was fortunate to be born with an incredible intelligence. Got great grades; handwrote her application to Harvard (this was in the early 90s); was brought before the admissions committee since they couldn't believe someone from her poor (according to her recommenders), rural background could have done as well as she had in high school. Graduated Phi Beta Kappa, earned a full scholarship to a top ten law school, and is now a senior associate at a major law firm.

You think she gripes about taxes? Absolutely not, not one bit. We're fortunate enough to be in one of the top tax brackets, A.K.A. the "HENRYs" you hear about. She absolutely supports social welfare programs and safety nets. Since, guess what, no one has a moral desert to grow up in poverty; and no one can predict what skills or abilities they will be born with. Some need no help, while all need at least some help.

She and I believe that for anyone willing to work, in any job -- from a CEO to a janitor to a ditch-digger -- they and theirs deserve a strong public education, healthcare for all, a livable minimum wage, an earned income tax credits or ideally a minimum national income. She and I are fortunate to earn enough to pay a healthy share in taxes, and support paying higher taxes if needed to improve the safety net.

We've spent a generation giving the so-called "wealth creators" tax breaks. The Reagan tax cuts; the GWB tax cuts on income, capital gains and dividends; lowering state income tax rates; eliminating state inheritance taxes; raising the estate tax floor from $650k to $5m. Throughout the 2000s, employment stagnated outside of bubbles in housing and technology, and there is little evidence of any "job creation" -- folks getting tax breaks don't hire people because they have more money in their taxes, they hire people if there is a need for the work to be done. Simply put, across a normally distributed workforce, jobs are disappearing as improved automation and technology take workforce slots. Period. (It's foolish to snort, as someone else has already done, that you just need to "run out and get a STEM job." Carried ad absurdum, if every American did that, you would have engineers earning minimum wage.)

Fundamentally, as wealth is becoming more and more concentrated -- and labor is losing to capital in re taking its share of earnings. Yes, the poor are losing the Class War, and so is the middle class.
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:07 PM
 
6,319 posts, read 7,242,978 times
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There is a "class war"?????

Your average rich American by passed "class" without even realising, ended up at "tacky" and have all the class of a day shift hooker working Motel 6.

Class does not equal money. Never has, never will. Americans just don't "get" this, they think they can buy everything.

Cases in point - Kardashian, BH Housewives, Miley Cyrus. Low rent, every one of them.
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