Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This week I had two interesting experiences, that really illustrate the problem of our current low wage economy.
I went to the coffee shop, and overheard the barristas talking about the process of getting food stamps. These people were in their 20s. This cafe is staffed by art students and the like (all the stereotypes you have about coffeeshop workers and hipsters are true of this place). And they talked about getting food stands to make ends meet, and how to strategize on how to make your food stamps last the whole month.
Not I don't know anything about these people, they might have kids, but I don't think they do. They were able bodied white young people who were clearly employed. But their jobs didn't provide them with enough money to live, so much so they decided to get food stamps.
And then when I was listening to a "lifestyle" radio show, one of the hosts (who lives in a different region, that is much lower cost than mine), discussed how he and his spouse were downgrading for the summer. They worked in education (operations staff I believe, not that I pay all that much attention to the personal life banter on the show), and in order to save some money, they plan 2 camp for 2 months of the summer and put their stuff in storage. Apparently they like camping.
So here we have it. Able-bodied people with jobs, are making sacrifices and using government programs to make ends meet. Whatever happened to jobs with a living wage?
Isn't the point of working to become financially self-sufficient? Shouldn't employers pay enough so that happens, instead of passing those costs off to government social services? What gives?
Ive never understood why "jobs" and "living wage" belong in the same sentence. I know of a lot of job that high school kids take in order to save up money for college, or have spending money for the summer. I know of moms that work to bring in a little more money for the household. None of these people could live on what they are making; those jobs arent meant for that.
Just because one has a job, doesnt mean they have to be able to call that a living wage. I wouldnt expect to be able to pay all my bills flipping hamburgers, but if I were an accountant, I would.
Ive never understood why "jobs" and "living wage" belong in the same sentence. I know of a lot of job that high school kids take in order to save up money for college, or have spending money for the summer. I know of moms that work to bring in a little more money for the household. None of these people could live on what they are making; those jobs arent meant for that.
Just because one has a job, doesnt mean they have to be able to call that a living wage. I wouldnt expect to be able to pay all my bills flipping hamburgers, but if I were an accountant, I would.
Pick your spots.
If you work full-time or desire to work full-time and make the effort to work full-time, then yes, the job should pay a living wage. If you averaged all the salaries and profits (above inflation) in any given company and divided it by the number of workers, I would be rather surprised if the lowest-paid workers couldn't have their salaries doubled without causing only moderate cuts to those far better off within that company.
One should be able to pay all their bills flipping hamburgers. In this country, the GDP per worker (including part-time workers) is over $100,000. Even if 25% of that goes to capital returns (which I think is too high, but hey), then we are talking about an average salary of $75k per approximately 1700 hours of working. Put another way, that's an average hourly wage - including benefits - of $45.
Is it so hard to imagine that the bottom tier could make 1/3 of the average? It's certainly doable and the inflationary effects would not erode much of the increased buying power for those workers.
There is nothing about a job that is "meant to do" anything. We, as society, determine how the economy works and how jobs work, how the unemployed are paid and how we tax, etc... Or at least we have the power to, Mircea's protestations notwithstanding.
A person is suppsoe to live within their means of what they get, instead, the gov to give them benefits so they can live beyond the means they get from their job.
And some advocates would have you think that everyone on food stamps use to have a $100k a year job, then lost it and had to work at Walmart; reality is these people never had high paying jobs, just felt free to incur expenses like kids, and expect the gov to pay them for this.
Many people factor in gov benefits into their lifestyle, so while you may seen some people developing a strategy to make their stamps last longer, they are using the money freed up from purchasing food to do other things, like social activities.
The problem is, there is "making sacrifices to make ends meet" and really sacrificing.
No one finds it troubling a couple, with 2 gainfully employed adults with full-time jobs, decides to camp and couch surf for the summer to save money? That's terrible. 2 adults should be able to afford a reasonable place to live. These people don't have kids and they don't even have cars. So something is really off with the universe, if they are already living pretty minimal lifestyles, and figure not paying 3 months for the year is the best way to afford life.
And these 20-somethings who work who are on food stamps? It is a bonafied trend for low-wage workers. They types of people who are already driving crappy cars (or not driving) and living with roommates and such. And they still can't afford to pay bills and eat.
Meanwhile, shareholders and CEOs are loading up! And the workers are suffering. Full-time work used to allow you to afford a decent life, yet not extravagant. Now you can't even eat and pay rent....even if you are child-free.
I managed to live on an $35.00 per week that was leftover from my payroll after all monthly debts were paid.
I had rent, utilities, gasoline, groceries and one small personal loan. It was tough but all of my debts were paid on time each month, in full and I was still able to shoot darts one night a week without the help of the government or anyone else.
I ate a lot of rice a roni and pasta that was on sale but I managed just fine.
The problem is, there is "making sacrifices to make ends meet" and really sacrificing.
Welcome to the real world, you cannot always get what you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408
No one finds it troubling a couple, with 2 gainfully employed adults with full-time jobs, decides to camp and couch surf for the summer to save money? That's terrible. 2 adults should be able to afford a reasonable place to live. These people don't have kids and they don't even have cars. So something is really off with the universe, if they are already living pretty minimal lifestyles, and figure not paying 3 months for the year is the best way to afford life.
Yes, something is really off if two full time employed adults are so horrible with money, they cannot even afford a place to live. Their problem is not income, but spending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408
And these 20-somethings who work who are on food stamps? It is a bonafied trend for low-wage workers. They types of people who are already driving crappy cars (or not driving) and living with roommates and such. And they still can't afford to pay bills and eat.
They perhaps should gain skills to get them more pay, and/or cut down on their expenditures. Also, move to a lower cost of living area, no one guarantees anyone that they can afford to live in some high priced area; someone can move to a small town in TN and work at Walmart for $10/hr for overnight stocking (full time job also) and live just fine there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408
Meanwhile, shareholders and CEOs are loading up! And the workers are suffering. Full-time work used to allow you to afford a decent life, yet not extravagant. Now you can't even eat and pay rent....even if you are child-free.
Why of course shareholders are loading up; why is it you think I owe someone more money than they are worth? With my income I make, I take that money and invest in companies I think are going to give me returns. I fully expect the companies to maximize the returns to their shareholders; I am the one taking the risk with my money. Companies are not charities, there are plenty of those I donate to.
If you work full-time or desire to work full-time and make the effort to work full-time, then yes, the job should pay a living wage. If you averaged all the salaries and profits (above inflation) in any given company and divided it by the number of workers, I would be rather surprised if the lowest-paid workers couldn't have their salaries doubled without causing only moderate cuts to those far better off within that company.
Really? Because let's do the math in my area:
Let's pretend you work 40 hours a week and make $10/hr. Your take home for the month is about 1300 a month.
Renting a room: averages about $650 even in the marginal areas, an average one bedroom these days is about $1400.
Health insurance: $200
Cell phone/phone: $50
Utilities: $50
Food: $120
So I am at $1070. My barrista examples likely went to college or are current students, since most of the workers are at this place. They might have loan debt. And insurance for young people is more like $250 these days...but I am being generous. What about transportation? Toilet paper? It is pretty precarious quickly. And most people aren't getting 40 hours in these low wage jobs. More like 28 hours. Just under the flag to get employer paid insurance. So yes, I can easily see how someone would fall into food stamps pretty fast.
Let's pretend you work 40 hours a week and make $10/hr. Your take home for the month is about 1300 a month.
Renting a room: averages about $650 even in the marginal areas, an average one bedroom these days is about $1400.
Health insurance: $200
Cell phone/phone: $50
Utilities: $50
Food: $120
So I am at $1070. My barrista examples likely went to college or are current students, since most of the workers are at this place. They might have loan debt. And insurance for young people is more like $250 these days...but I am being generous. What about transportation? Toilet paper? It is pretty precarious quickly. And most people aren't getting 40 hours in these low wage jobs. More like 28 hours. Just under the flag to get employer paid insurance. So yes, I can easily see how someone would fall into food stamps pretty fast.
How about move to a cheaper area? I lived in a cheap area and paid a whopping $530 for a two bedroom.
I do not get where people think they are entitled to live in an expensive area.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
